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[Spidey-Man]

I know DeFalco claims his Hobgoblin wasn't Leeds. But you said yourself everyone believed him to be Ned who read the book. Your words not mine.

No I did not. I never loved it when he was revealed to be Ned Leeds. I always hated it. What part of that can't you understand?

What you dont understand is you loved Hobgoblin. Not Kingsley. Hobgoblin

Peopel who loved Vader in Star Wars A New Hope didnt love Anakin Skywalker. They loved Darth Vader. There was no anakin to love. there was no kingsley as Goblin to love.

Its not possible to love Kingsley as Goblin until he's revealed as such and going forward stories are told with him as such.

[Doozer]

AMS, i get where you're coming from, but you and Zechs seem to misunderstand the current market.

The only books that are really going to sell 70k+ monthly are Bendis, Morrison and events. If you take events and renumbering out, then that leaves Bendis and Morrison, and those guys can only write so many books. ASM is consistently one of the top selling non-event books on the market. It's reasonably self contained and has been able to keep up sales without relying on massive tie-ins to other books or company wide crossovers.

For a book that's had a lot of upheaval, doesn't directly tie into big events in a way that disrupts story lines and features a rotating creative lineup, that's pretty good.

[Zechs]

Also let me point out this fact as well. The Spidey writers I think knew the original Hobgoblin was returning and it was Kingsley. Hence Mackie giving one more huge ride with Macendale and the utter situation (and ironic) that Macendale for all his newfound power and rep in the underworld now he still had absolutely nothing.

Also Spider-Man Unlimited #14 is another key example of that with Jonah running into all the old suspects of the Hobgoblin Saga including Kingsley himself. Even more intriguing Kingsley wasn't acting like any of his later half appearances during the tail end of the Hobgoblin Saga. I should further note it was even released month before Hobgoblin Lives.

Honestly, you ain't gonna change any of my views. You know I'm too thick headed for that. You're just making me enjoy my day by talking about my fav Spidey character.

[Spidey-Man]

Sales have dipped a lot with Amazing

Im not sure that's what they intended after OMD. It's certainly not what they claimed would happen.

they claimed all these people who were offput by the mqarriage would jump on board. that apparently didnt happen. They lost alot of pro-marriage people. and now they've lost other readers too given the marketplace and economy.

they are helped somewhat they if you do buy it, you HAVE to buy all three books.

But it also hurts. some people dont want to buy three spidey books. and the constant creator changes gives constant jumping off points as much as it does jumping on.

[Rockman]

AMS, i get where you're coming from, but you and Zechs seem to misunderstand the current market.

The only books that are really going to sell 70k+ monthly are Bendis, Morrison and events. If you take events and renumbering out, then that leaves Bendis and Morrison, and those guys can only write so many books. ASM is consistently one of the top selling non-event books on the market. It's reasonably self contained and has been able to keep up sales without relying on massive tie-ins to other books or company wide crossovers.

For a book that's had a lot of upheaval, doesn't directly tie into big events in a way that disrupts story lines and features a rotating creative lineup, that's pretty good.

I'm not commenting on the numbers I'm commenting on the relation to the book on sales to other titles, specifically at Marvel. I think the book could and should be doing better in the market. The highest selling single issue of Spider-man all year was the first issue of Big time, which is an "event" for the character. Now I assume that the book is again losing readers.

No you can't have Bendis write every title, but out of all the writers in the bull pen on spidey why choose slot as the main guy?

[Zechs]

AMS, i get where you're coming from, but you and Zechs seem to misunderstand the current market.

The only books that are really going to sell 70k+ monthly are Bendis, Morrison and events. If you take events and renumbering out, then that leaves Bendis and Morrison, and those guys can only write so many books. ASM is consistently one of the top selling non-event books on the market. It's reasonably self contained and has been able to keep up sales without relying on massive tie-ins to other books or company wide crossovers.

For a book that's had a lot of upheaval, doesn't directly tie into big events in a way that disrupts story lines and features a rotating creative lineup, that's pretty good.

A man named Geoff Johns writer of Flash and one of two GL books would like to have a word with you. Also two Bendis books sell over 70k+ and both are Avengers. None of his other books sell as much. Also you forget to mention that the Batman books appear to be spreading like wildfire as well. But for how long, who knows? Also I might be wrong here but anything named Wolverine still sells.

[Zechs]

What you dont understand is you loved Hobgoblin. Not Kingsley. Hobgoblin

Peopel who loved Vader in Star Wars A New Hope didnt love Anakin Skywalker. They loved Darth Vader. There was no anakin to love. there was no kingsley as Goblin to love.

Its not possible to love Kingsley as Goblin until he's revealed as such and going forward stories are told with him as such.

Alas for you I saw Return of the Jedi first. Don't ask, I just have vague memories of being scared shitless of Jabba and enthralled by Darth Vader. So what your saying is I love Hobgoblin, not Roderick Kingsley. But if we go by that measure I love Cassandra Cain, not Batgirl, or Holiday (aka Long Halloween).

Thing is.. you're comparing the Hobgoblin identity separately when you shouldn't. You have to consider the man behind the mask given the actions they take. Put someone else in that mask they won't be the same (like Macendale or Urich). That's why I always thought Ned as the original Hobgoblin was bogus. The actions and plot holes of Ned in his Hobgoblin career never made any sense given Stern and DeFalco before him (obviously suggesting the person had to be different and given the nature of the Hobgoblin sending out dupes you have to think Ned was one). Which was why I was giddy like a six year old again when Hobgoblin Lives came out. Stern retcons and changes events to exactly that. Ned is out and enter Kingsley.

Futhermore, I look to multimedia as well specifically Spectacular Spider-Man. We got Norman first in that and it was a good six episodes before they hit the Green Goblin. Even then the mystery was intriguing with how they pulled off that revelation. Yet, remember in those threads I was always the person who still believed Norman was still the Goblin. S2 series finale bam I was totally right. And guess they introduced in S2 and if they had a S3 destined to be Hobgoblin? Roderick Kingsley. Even more they listed him as Kingsley in the episode to allude that we could have had his twin bro be him for a couple of scenes.

[fieldy snuts]

That Kingsley was a Kingpin lite, not a fashion/cosmetics designer.

[sdsichero]

Honestly, you ain't gonna change any of my views. You know I'm too thick headed for that. You're just making me enjoy my day by talking about my fav Spidey character.

Too bad he's dead.

[Zechs]

That Kingsley was a Kingpin lite, not a fashion/cosmetics designer.

Actually he did run cosmetics, Peter even asked what's his face what the heck a dude who runs cosmetics is doing with a crowd of supervillains and gangsters.

[Dragavon]

Zechs, I realize you have a very tenuous grip with reality but here's some facts:

Amazing Spider-Man was the 13th best selling comic in the month of December. The only Marvel titles to sell more were Avengers (written by Bendis), New Avengers (written by Bendis) & Wolverine: The Best There Is #1 (A new Wolverine series starting at #1). Every other title was by DC (of which 5 were written by Geoff Johns and the other 4 were Batman titles).

So to sum it up, it's the fourth best selling title out of Marvel but they should listen to you bitch about the death of a twenty year old character because you obviously know a lot more than they do?

[Zechs]

Zechs, I realize you have a very tenuous grip with reality but here's some facts:

Amazing Spider-Man was the 13th best selling comic in the month of December. The only Marvel titles to sell more were Avengers (written by Bendis), New Avengers (written by Bendis) & Wolverine: The Best There Is #1 (A new Wolverine series starting at #1). Every other title was by DC (of which 5 were written by Geoff Johns and the other 4 were Batman titles).

So to sum it up, it's the fourth best selling title out of Marvel but they should listen to you bitch about the death of a twenty year old character because you obviously know a lot more than they do?

All I have to say to you is..

#1

[S.F. Jude Terror]

Oh shit is Zechs about to get pwned? And I was about to go to bed!

[Dan Slott]

Spidey should be the second or first best selling book at Marvel. But it ain't.

I'm sorry. But at this point you should retitle the thread Zechs continues to know nothing of the current comic book market.

Marvel's first and second selling titles ARE Spider-Man titles. (They also happen to have Wolverine in them as well). And they're called AVENGERS and NEW AVENGERS.
Those two titles are Marvel's perennial best sellers. They're written by Marvel's biggest gun, Brian Michael Bendis. And they regularly chart the course for where the Marvel U. is going. Anyone who's been following the industry for the past half decade who expects ANY other monthly out of Marvel to top that isn't being all that realistic.

That said... Since the start of "Big Time", AMAZING SPIDER-MAN actually HAS charted higher than New Avengers AS Marvel's second best selling book (in November). It was Marvel's 4th best selling book in December. But you should also keep in mind that this ranking is for the book's initial retailer orders in the direct market. The book is actually doing MUCH better than those numbers imply for TWO reasons:

1) Out of all of Marvel's mainstream titles, ASM has the highest SUBSCRIPTIONS (which aren't factored into direct market sales).
2) ALL FIVE of the issues of "Big Time" that have been released so far have SOLD OUT at Diamond and have had to go back to press for 2nd printings. Let me repeat that-- it is FIVE for FIVE for selling out at Diamond. That is a pretty mean feet for ANY book in this industry. And that means that those numbers that you're looking at aren't over yet. The second printing runs STILL haven't been added to the final tallies.

Sorry you don't care for it. But the book is shaping up to be one of Marvel's best selling series and is actually doing VERY well.

[Dragavon]

Aaaand we're done!

Shows over folks. Jude has sung. Time to go home.