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by **Doc Jon** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:18 am

It just makes it seem like Yoda and Obi Wan were sending Luke to his death.

Seriously, after watching the prequels, what chance did Luke have against the Emperor AND Vader?

Vader, maybe. After all, he was more machine than man and so on and so forth. Maybe Luke pulls a win there. Obi Wan obviously got the best of Anakin, so one could argue that.

Now, the Emperor has aged 20 years since the prequels. But he took on Yoda who was basically considered the greatest Jedi swordsman and defeated him. Maybe he wasn't going to take Luke in a lightsaber fight without breaking a hip, but they knew that the Emperor dwarfed Luke in terms of power. Yoda and Obi Wan also didn't believe in Anakin's redemption, so they certainly didn't believe that there would be help coming from there.

So they basically sent Luke into battle with a guy that was taking on 4 or so Jedi at a time and winning with Luke's 3-4 years of training at most.

This bother anyone else?

by **Doc Jon** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:22 am

Oh, and another thing, what the hell were the Sith seeking revenge for?!

I hate this in movies when they don't even bother to give a reason. 3 movies and there is absolutely no reason given for why the Sith are seeking revenge. Maul has that one line, at last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. Finally we will have our revenge...

But why?

I get that they are evil bitches and so they do evil things, but really? 3 movies and there wasn't time to give us a little backstory as to why Palpatine is so bent on destroying the Republic and the Jedi. Not even a, "they hunted us to the brink of extinction" or some shit? Glad we got all that characterization on Jar Jar instead.

by **Dragavon** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:26 am

The problem with all the stories is for all Lucas's bullshit about him having a grand plan, he was doing these one movie at a time. So continuity is fucked.

And all the backstory is in the novels because good old George cannot be bothered to explain shit to us. :roll:

by **Starlord** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:46 am

Jon Salwen wrote:Oh, and another thing, what the hell were the Sith seeking revenge for?!

I hate this in movies when they don't even bother to give a reason. 3 movies and there is absolutely no reason given for why the Sith are seeking revenge. Maul has that one line, at last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. Finally we will have our revenge...

But why?

I get that they are evil bitches and so they do evil things, but really? 3 movies and there wasn't time to give us a little backstory as to why Palpatine is so bent on destroying the Republic and the Jedi. Not even a, "they hunted us to the brink of extinction" or some shit? Glad we got all that characterization on Jar Jar instead.

Well now it bothers me.

by **GOSD** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:58 am

First, it's not like they could have stopped him. Obi Wan was already dead and in ROTJ, Yoda was near death before Luke took on both Vader and the Emperor.

Secondly, the Emperor didn't really defeat Yoda. That was more of a stalemate.

As for the revenge thing, c'mon. It's Lucas. Nothing makes sense anymore.

by **Rockman** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:58 am

I never really thought about them sending Luke on a suicide mission.

by **Gladiator X** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:02 am

"there are no prequels"

by **MistaT** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:31 am

Rikk Odinson wrote:"there are no prequels"

by **Doc Jon** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:45 am

GOSD wrote:First, it's not like they could have stopped him. Obi Wan was already dead and in ROTJ, Yoda was near death before Luke took on both Vader and the Emperor.

Secondly, the Emperor didn't really defeat Yoda. That was more of a stalemate.

As for the revenge thing, c'mon. It's Lucas. Nothing makes sense anymore.

What?!

They specifically tell him he cannot become a Jedi unless he faces Vader and the Emperor. Obi Wan IN GHOST FORM NO LESS gives him a guilt trip about it!

Dude, Luke even whines about NOT wanting to do it.

by **False Prophet** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:33 am

Don't think about the logic connecting the prequels to the original films or you'll go fucking insane. I'm sure the novels do a better job explaining things, but on the surface it makes no damn sense for Yoda and Obi to wait for Luke to grow up launch an offensive. First of all, but Jedi logic, Luke's way too old. Also, Yoda must've been one sexist sumbitch to let Leia off the hook so easily until no other option remained.

And I understand the "balance" thing the Jedi so covet, but are you telling me that in a span of 20 years there's still only two Jedi and two Sith remaining. No Midichlorian Arms Race? No cloning of Anakin? No Dark Jedis or Secret Jedis or Bendis-speaking Mighty Jedis? Just two old gasbags and two uglier old gasbags in ivory towers waiting to let little punkass farmboys decide the fate of the galaxy?

by **Strict31** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:32 pm

Jon Salwen wrote:It just makes it seem like Yoda and Obi Wan were sending Luke to his death.

Seriously, after watching the prequels, what chance did Luke have against the Emperor AND Vader?

Vader, maybe. After all, he was more machine than man and so on and so forth. Maybe Luke pulls a win there. Obi Wan obviously got the best of Anakin, so one could argue that.

Now, the Emperor has aged 20 years since the prequels. But he took on Yoda who was basically considered the greatest Jedi swordsman and defeated him. Maybe he wasn't going to take Luke in a lightsaber fight without breaking a hip, but they knew that the Emperor dwarfed Luke in terms of power. Yoda and Obi Wan also didn't believe in Anakin's redemption, so they certainly didn't believe that there would be help coming from there.

So they basically sent Luke into battle with a guy that was taking on 4 or so Jedi at a time and winning with Luke's 3-4 years of training at most.

This bother anyone else?

Neither of them sent Luke to fight Vader AND the Emperor. There's nothing in the dialogue that even comes close to suggesting this.

Yoda and Obi-Wan tell Luke that he must confront Vader. That's all. That's the extent of their plan. They didn't tell him "surrender yourself into Vader's custody and hope for the best." That was all Luke's idea.

In point of fact, they warned his dumb ass not to underestimate the power of the Dark Side. He utterly defied that warning when he tossed his saber away after defeating Vader, and started frontin' on the Emperor. Luke all but said, "Kiss my dick, Your Bitchassness!" and for his hubris, he got a surprise lightning blast to the cock.

Luke placed his entire fate in Vader's hands from the moment he arrived on Endor. He placed his faith in Vader's redemption. It was entirely his idea to do that.

And while it ultimately paid off for him, it is because of his surrender to Vader that Vader brought him before the Emperor. Obi-Wan and Yoda had nothing to do with that.

And Palpatine never beat Yoda. Yoda's bitch-ass gave up.

In fact, that's what troubled me about the Prequels. One of the things, at least.

by **Strict31** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:33 pm

Jon Salwen wrote:
What?!

They specifically tell him he cannot become a Jedi unless he faces Vader and the Emperor. Obi Wan IN GHOST FORM NO LESS gives him a guilt trip about it!

Dude, Luke even whines about NOT wanting to do it.

You are mistaken about this.

by **Strict31** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:42 pm

Jon Salwen wrote:Oh, and another thing, what the hell were the Sith seeking revenge for?!

I hate this in movies when they don't even bother to give a reason. 3 movies and there is absolutely no reason given for why the Sith are seeking revenge. Maul has that one line, at last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. Finally we will have our revenge...

But why?

I get that they are evil bitches and so they do evil things, but really? 3 movies and there wasn't time to give us a little backstory as to why Palpatine is so bent on destroying the Republic and the Jedi. Not even a, "they hunted us to the brink of extinction" or some shit? Glad we got all that characterization on Jar Jar instead.

Lucas is a self-described "writer who doesn't like to write", so his fool ass never went into that in the movies. And that's unfortunate, because it forces anyone who's interested into looking outside the source material for the answer.

That's a bad story.

The answer exists in Expanded Universe material and is fairly easy to find. But like I say, if the writer fails to answer it within his own story, then he hasn't done his job.

Basically, the answer exists in the whole Rule of Two concept. "Always there are two," Yoda and Mace say in Phantom Menace. Remember that at the end?

Well the reason for that is because at one point, the Sith were far more numerous. The Jedi hunted and hounded the shit out of the Sith. Wherever the Sith went, the Jedi tracked them down and assfucked them.

The Sith hated this. Hated the fact the Jedi had basically run their order into the ground. To survive, they went into hiding, and a cat named Darth Bane institituted the Rule of Two. In order to hide from the Jedi, there would only ever be a master and an apprentice. No more would they have vast armies roaming the spacelanes. No more would they have their Sith Academy on the planet of Korriban.

So, the revenge is for that act.

And yeah, it sucks that you have to look outside the story for that explanation. But Lucas is a lazy writer.

by **Keb** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:43 pm

What pisses me off is that the guy who played the Emperor did such an awful job in the movies.

by **TROY** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:51 pm

Strict31 wrote:
Neither of them sent Luke to fight Vader AND the Emperor. There's nothing in the dialogue that even comes close to suggesting this.

Yoda and Obi-Wan tell Luke that he must confront Vader. That's all. That's the extent of their plan. They didn't tell him "surrender yourself into Vader's custody and hope for the best." That was all Luke's idea.

In point of fact, they warned his dumb ass not to underestimate the power of the Dark Side. He utterly defied that warning when he tossed his saber away after defeating Vader, and started frontin' on the Emperor. Luke all but said, "Kiss my dick, Your Bitchassness!" and for his hubris, he got a surprise lightning blast to the cock.

Luke placed his entire fate in Vader's hands from the moment he arrived on Endor. He placed his faith in Vader's redemption. It was entirely his idea to do that.

And while it ultimately paid off for him, it is because of his surrender to Vader that Vader brought him before the Emperor. Obi-Wan and Yoda had nothing to do with that.

And Palpatine never beat Yoda. Yoda's bitch-ass gave up.

In fact, that's what troubled me about the Prequels. One of the things, at least.

Yeah the fact that Obi Wan and Yoda two of the most bad ass dude around just basically run off and had for what 16-17 years?! Yeah thats what bothered me so much.