The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

by **MrBlack** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:56 pm

ElijahSnowFan wrote:
I was 16 in 1986, and I remember finishing COIE and then reading "The History of the DC Universe" prestige mini and thinking of the possibilities. I didn't really have a whole lot of experience with comics -- I had only been reading about eight years, so I didn't really understand the concept of a reboot, hard or soft.

I don't think it's my age that makes me leery of it...it's what I've seen companies -- particularly DC -- do with them once they're out.

See, just think back to COIE. As soon as it got a little hinky for some of the minor characters and DC realized they wanted to do a couple of things to Green Lantern, Zero Hour comes rolling along. And what happened to Hal Jordan and Hawkman, the Legion, ain't balanced by Jack Knight coming along.

You go to Infinite Crisis and OYL, and while I don't want to sound cruel, let's be honest: Hawkgirl was abysmal -- maybe the worst series I've ever picked up -- Flash wasn't much better, Wonder Woman and various other books weren't published on time, Martian Manhunter's mini was brutal, Amazons Attack might be the single-worst miniseries/crossover I've ever seen, somebody thought having a clone of Aquaman was a good idea, and so forth.

I mean, it was BAD. If anybody cares to remember, if Johns hadn't pulled off the Sinestro Corps War and started strongly with Justice Society, and Meltzer's Justice League hadn't sold really well -- man, DC was in trouble just one year after Infinite Crisis. I'm not exaggerating -- it was BAD.

That's why I'm nervous, people. These things...it's really hard to make people stick with books. Maybe a new reader won't care if a book isn't that good, or maybe they won't know better. Maybe that's what DC is counting on.

But my question is this: If you don't get the geezers to buy in to your Captain Atoms and Mister Terrifics of the 52 relaunched properties -- and let's be kind, there are readers out there who are downright terrified at the thought of paying money for a book written by some of the announced writers -- how are your sales numbers really going to look?

Something to keep in mind is that while we of the comic book message boards are very vocal in our opinions about comics, we are still a minority. Folks here wake up with the shakes at the mere thought of Tony Daniel writing their favorite characters, but that's not necessarily how the majority of comic buyers feel. Even under Daniel, Batman still outsold most other DC books by quite a wide margin. Some people, at least, seem to like him.

by **ElijahSnowFan** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:58 pm

MrBlack wrote:Something to keep in mind is that while we of the comic book message boards are very vocal in our opinions about comics, we are still a minority. Folks here wake up with the shakes at the mere thought of Tony Daniel writing their favorite characters, but that's not necessarily how the majority of comic buyers feel. Even under Daniel, Batman still outsold most other DC books by quite a wide margin. Some people, at least, seem to like him.

You know why I hope you're right? Because we all know what happens if the B/C list characters fail in a relaunch: They're first up on the execution list for the inevitable crossovers, because "no one read about these characters when they were in their own books."

by **Victorian Squid** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:07 pm

After '86 I read more independent and also some Marvel comics.

by **alaska1125** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:08 pm

ElijahSnowFan wrote:And that's why publishing something featuring Roy Harper swinging around dead cats isn't funny -- see, I've been around a long time. People don't forget shit like that -- or the creator whose names are on it.

I couldn't agree more, of course. I actively avoid anything with J.T.'s name on based on that abomination of a storyline. Robinson gets the same treatment to a bit of a lesser degree, primarily for everything he's done with the JLA in the last few years. I was dreading another poorly written, soon-to-be-cancelled Hawkman series. Dodged that bullet eh? Oh...wait...

by **Victorian Squid** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:09 pm

I was a Roy Harper fan as a kid too. :-(

by **MrBlack** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:09 pm

I'd say it's pretty obvious that DC isn't trying to keep their old readers with this revamp. They're trying to bring in new ones. If it's true that Time Warner is the impetus behind the revamp, we'd better hope that it succeeds, or else I doubt that we'll be seeing any more comics from DC at all.

by **alaska1125** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:12 pm

MrBlack wrote:Even under Daniel, Batman still outsold most other DC books by quite a wide margin. Some people, at least, seem to like him.

I'm of the opinion that Batman outsells most other DC book because it's Batman, not because it's written by Tony Daniel. But I suppose I could be wrong. We'll find out in a few months. That said, I do hope it sells through the roof. Hawkman deserves a top 20 book.

by **Cat-Scratch** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:13 pm

MrBlack wrote:I'd say it's pretty obvious that DC isn't trying to keep their old readers with this revamp. They're trying to bring in new ones. If it's true that Time Warner is the impetus behind the revamp, we'd better hope that it succeeds, or else I doubt that we'll be seeing any more comics from DC at all.

That or it's a legal maneuver to take greater ownership of all the characters.

by **ElijahSnowFan** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:14 pm

alaska1125 wrote:
I couldn't agree more, of course. I actively avoid anything with J.T.'s name on based on that abomination of a storyline. Robinson gets the same treatment to a bit of a lesser degree, primarily for everything he's done with the JLA in the last few years. I was dreading another poorly written, soon-to-be-cancelled Hawkman series. Dodged that bullet eh? Oh...wait...

HA! What, you mean you're not lining up at midnight to get the 3-D holofoil variant for "The Savage Hawkman #1," where it looks like Carter Hall's swinging a big freaking axe right at your head? :-D

by **Juan Cena** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:17 pm

Cat-Scratch wrote:
That or it's a legal maneuver to take greater ownership of all the characters.

Or at leas the only one Time-Warner :evil:

really gives a $#!t about. (Outside of Batman)

by **ElijahSnowFan** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:19 pm

MrBlack wrote:I'd say it's pretty obvious that DC isn't trying to keep their old readers with this revamp. They're trying to bring in new ones. If it's true that Time Warner is the impetus behind the revamp, we'd better hope that it succeeds, or else I doubt that we'll be seeing any more comics from DC at all.

If that's the case...what are you going to do? Does anybody have any kind of feel for how many lapsed or new readers might even be out there?

Man, I don't know. I just don't know. I understand they don't want me around anymore -- or rather, don't care if I'm around or not -- but at some point, you do still have to replace me, or know of somebody who will.

I just don't know if those people are out there -- when I started collecting, books were just transitioning from 30 cents to 35 cents. I know if I had a kid who wanted to start today, I'd be like, "$2.99? $3.99? What idiot buys this stuff? Get in the car!" :smt013

by **alaska1125** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:20 pm

ElijahSnowFan wrote:
HA! What, you mean you're not lining up at midnight to get the 3-D holofoil variant for "The Savage Hawkman #1," where it looks like Carter Hall's swinging a big freaking axe right at your head?

You know you want that bad boy! I am hoping I get one of the limited edition foil-embossed trading cards as well. :-P

by **Amoebas** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:23 pm

Evan Meadow wrote:
Here's a question for those of us old enough to remember:

Did we feel this same way back in 1986?

I honestly can't remember. I do remember having a lot of trouble reading Superman back then. But once I took the time to do it I loved it. The rest of the books I got over the confusion fairly quickly and just kept reading.

I was 23 and couldn't wait to see what would happen, very excited. Sure I moaned with some of the changes (Wonder Woman & Hawkman's continuity just starting, the Huntress changing, etc) but by and large I loved it and soaked up everything I could.

At that time I was 50/50 DC & Marvel. Shortly after CoIE, my DC percentage started climbing to the 95/5 that it's at now.

by **ElijahSnowFan** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:25 pm

alaska1125 wrote:
You know you want that bad boy! I am hoping I get one of the limited edition foil-embossed trading cards as well.

Just eliminate the risk and buy 20, speculator-style. :-D

by **Amoebas** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:25 pm

vinnypic wrote:There are two camps here. Those who have no investment in the dcu and are like "whatever you old nerds, this could be cool" and those od us who are like "no, you wet behind the ears dumbass, everytime they relaunch, its invariably worse than the last one, and this one will suck more than all the others comboned". As such, there is no middle ground, one camp will be validated.

I'm in the third camp - Old fuddyduddy with 30 years invested with DC who's looking forward to seeing what's coming.