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by **PDH** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:14 pm

I do agree that it could have been shorter.

For example, the main point of most of the Jon and Dany chapters was to show how tough leadership can be. Which is fine. But after a couple of chapters we've basically got the message and yet it felt like there were dozens of the fuckers. We were being constantly hammered with the same point that had already been well enough made. 'OK, I'm still the leader and it's still really tough.'

There only needed to be a couple of those. Put all the best bits together and cut the rest. I think that one change would have made for a much tighter book.

by **Punchy** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:52 pm

Apache Chef wrote:It's funny how the story of Stannis is still always told from another POV, but between A Feast for Crows and this book, he's given just about everyone else their own POV chapters.

None of the Kings get a POV.

by **Rockman** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:04 pm

Punchy wrote:
None of the Kings get a POV.

Is this something that he specifically pointed out in an interview or just an accurate observation?

Maybe it has a purpose for it, but it is strange to get a random Melisandre, Arys Oakheart, Areo Hotah... chapters all the time. Aero Hotah's is even more odd because we've already had Arrianna as a pov character.

by **Punchy** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:08 pm

Rockman wrote:
Is this something that he specifically pointed out in an interview or just an accurate observation?

Maybe it has a purpose for it, but it is strange to get a random Melisandre, Arys Oakheart, Areo Hotah... chapters all the time. Aero Hotah's is even more odd because we've already had Arrianna as a pov character.

I think he's mentioned it in interviews before.

by **AaronW** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:29 pm

PDH wrote:I do agree that it could have been shorter.

For example, the main point of most of the Jon and Dany chapters was to show how tough leadership can be. Which is fine. But after a couple of chapters we've basically got the message and yet it felt like there were dozens of the fuckers. We were being constantly hammered with the same point that had already been well enough made. 'OK, I'm still the leader and it's still really tough.'

There only needed to be a couple of those. Put all the best bits together and cut the rest. I think that one change would have made for a much tighter book.

Yep. A good read but still like some Stephen King books I thought he could have tightened it up a lot.

by **ReturnoftheMack** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:34 pm

[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand

ITT: Punchy doesn't know how to use spoiler tags. :lol:

by **xaraan** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:33 am

It doesn't much matter, as I've pointed out a time or two, they don't work on the article version of comments so anyone checking this out from the article will see any spoilers anyhow.

by **Punchy** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:01 am

Also, I think everyone who cares on this board has read the book by now.

I was wondering where everyone stands on Young Griff/Aegon Targaryen, do you think he really is Rhaegar's son? Or just some random kid with the right hair colour that Varys and Illyrio cooked up?

by **Rockman** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:06 am

Punchy wrote:Also, I think everyone who cares on this board has read the book by now.

I was wondering where everyone stands on Young Griff/Aegon Targaryen, do you think he really is Rhaegar's son? Or just some random kid with the right hair colour that Varys and Illyrio cooked up?

I guess we'll find out when he meets a dragon.

by **Punchy** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:09 am

Rockman wrote:
I guess we'll find out when he meets a dragon.

Hey, Quentyn had some Targaryen blood too, and it didn't help him!

by **Apache Chef** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:02 pm

Punchy wrote:Also, I think everyone who cares on this board has read the book by now.

I was wondering where everyone stands on Young Griff/Aegon Targaryen, do you think he really is Rhaegar's son? Or just some random kid with the right hair colour that Varys and Illyrio cooked up?

I'm torn about this. On one hand, I think he might be legit - part of the disillusionment of the idea that Dani would obviously rise up and claim the throne. A kid with a better claim than her shows up and immediately goes to Westeros, while Dani is too busy fucking a mercenary and worrying about Mereen.

On the other hand, other than the Varys/Illyrio conversation near the dragon bones in the first book, he completely came out of nowhere. Seems like a pivotal figure would have more build up. But Martin is known for major plot developments happening off-page, so who knows.

by **xaraan** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:27 pm

Punchy wrote:I was wondering where everyone stands on Young Griff/Aegon Targaryen, do you think he really is Rhaegar's son? Or just some random kid with the right hair colour that Varys and Illyrio cooked up?

Well anything is possible I guess in these books but it seems likely to me he is legit. If he was cooked up by them, he did it long ago because everything Varys has done seems to fit with trying to bring what he views as the true ruler back into power. Even to the point of trying to help get rid of Dyneres when they popped up as heirs.