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by **Punchy** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:45 pm

Was reading it that hard?

by **Eli Katz** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:41 am

I was disappointed by this issue. It felt rushed and disjointed. Very anticlimatic compared to the other issues. Review to come.

by **Victorian Squid** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:47 am

Yeah, unsatisfying ending and resolutions to various conflicts all around. Surprisingly bad, with some real crime fiction no-nos you'd think Brubaker was too seasoned to fall for.

by **Punchy** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:51 am

Mike Mercury wrote:Yeah, unsatisfying ending and resolutions to various conflicts all around. Surprisingly bad, with some real crime fiction no-nos you'd think Brubaker was too seasoned to fall for.

How can a genre have 'no-nos'? Surely writers should be allowed freedom? What no-nos did he do?

by **Victorian Squid** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:52 am

Punchy wrote:
How can a genre have 'no-nos'? Surely writers should be allowed freedom? What no-nos did he do?

Sure, the freedom to fuck up a good story.

The rest you'll have to wait for.

This is the reason I didn't want to read this issue--I was afraid it would fall short and it did. Wish I hadn't, in retrospect.

by **Eli Katz** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:04 pm

The PI subplot was weak and went nowhere. And the explanation of the serial killing -- that it was a murder spree to cover up the motive behind one particular murder -- is overused. I have seen variations of this storyline in TV shows like Ironside. Yuck.

by **Punchy** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:12 pm

Mike Mercury wrote:
Sure, the freedom to fuck up a good story.

The rest you'll have to wait for.

This is the reason I didn't want to read this issue--I was afraid it would fall short and it did. Wish I hadn't, in retrospect.

If you don't want to read a comic because it might fall short you'll end up not reading anything!

by **Punchy** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:14 pm

I don't necessarily disagree with you about the ending being unsatisfying, but I just find the idea that you think there are set rules which crime stories can't break problematic.

by **Victorian Squid** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:15 pm

Eli Katz wrote:The PI subplot was weak and went nowhere. And the explanation of the serial killing -- that it was a murder spree to cover up the motive behind one particular murder -- is overused. I have seen variations of this storyline in TV shows like Ironside. Yuck.

Yup. The PI subplot felt like something written to be a primary conflict then was discarded during the process of writing the story--but in favor of what? Feels like a story that began with a beginning killing and an end where the killer gets away with it, but the middle is a muddle.

by **Victorian Squid** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:18 pm

Punchy wrote:I don't necessarily disagree with you about the ending being unsatisfying, but I just find the idea that you think there are set rules which crime stories can't break problematic.

It doesn't surprise me that you are thinking too didactically about this--when one subverts or breaks conventions of crime fiction, the result can be marvelous (when done well). This wasn't breaking or subverting conventions at all, it was falling into fairly common pitfalls. The crime genre is full of mediocre books and shoddy endings already.

by **Punchy** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:19 pm

Mike Mercury wrote:
It doesn't surprise me that you are thinking too didactically about this--when one subverts or breaks conventions of crime fiction, the result can be marvelous (when done well). This wasn't breaking or subverting conventions at all, it was falling into fairly common pitfalls. The crime genre is full of mediocre books and shoddy endings already.

I think it did subvert conventions, in that Riley got away with it, that is not what I expected at all.

I'm looking forward to your review and seeing what these no-nos are!

by **Victorian Squid** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:21 pm

Punchy wrote:
I think it did subvert conventions, in that Riley got away with it, that is not what I expected at all.

I'm looking forward to your review and seeing what these no-nos are!

Hmm. The story where the killer or criminal gets away with it is one of the most basic kinds of crime stories though. Usually, like here, the reader knows the score all along and it's either told through an omniscient narrator or by the killer themselves.

And you only look forward to trying to knock my review, let's be honest.

by **Punchy** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:26 pm

Mike Mercury wrote:
Hmm. The story where the killer or criminal gets away with it is one of the most basic kinds of crime stories though.

You may as well say that a story where the killer is punished is a cliche too, what is Brubaker supposed to do?

The way this story was written, it was setting up Riley for a big fall... and then it didn't happen. It subverted my expectations. Now obviously I'm not as well-read in the crime genre as you are Eli, but I do know some stuff. I do have some problems with the story, the pacing especially, but I think it was subversive and surprising.

by **Victorian Squid** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:30 pm

Punchy wrote:
You may as well say that a story where the killer is punished is a cliche too, what is Brubaker supposed to do?

Too didactic once again. You assume it's whether or not the killer gets away with it that's the problem to me. Those are just basic types of stories. There are good and bad stories representing both kinds. What is Brubaker supposed to do? Write it well either way.

Also, one can't say something is a "cliche too" if one never called anything a cliche in the first place. :roll:

by **Punchy** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:33 pm

Mike Mercury wrote:
Too didactic once again. You assume it's whether or not the killer gets away with it that's the problem to me. Those are just basic types of stories. There are good and bad stories representing both kinds. What is Brubaker supposed to do? Write it well either way.

Also, one can't say something is a "cliche too" if one never called anything a cliche in the first place.

'most basic kinds of' = cliche