The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

[Rockman]

No new property is going to sell well at first and the same goes for a new writer.

These things need time to get established, they need to consistently maintain a following and increase in quality as time goes on.

Do you think Walking Dead debuted as a top ten book? Or Fables or any uber popular book right now? I could be wrong, but I don't believe they did.

They started out good, they got a following, that following got more people in with word of mouth, positive reviews allowed these books to gain a following etc..

Marvel and DC are not in the business of giving these books a chance, at least not in their main universes. And honestly this isn't the market for it. Real books constantly have a flucuating top ten lists and all that, but their market is so much larger and appeals to so many people, and quite frankly isn't so set in their ways. If you chose only to read spider-man as a comic reader, then Marvel will happily provide you with enough spider-man to keep you busy. If you choose only to read Dresden files as a book reader you're simply not going to be reading for a full year or more until the next book comes out.

[Punchy]

No new property is going to sell well at first and the same goes for a new writer.

These things need time to get established, they need to consistently maintain a following and increase in quality as time goes on.

Do you think Walking Dead debuted as a top ten book? Or Fables or any uber popular book right now? I could be wrong, but I don't believe they did.

They started out good, they got a following, that following got more people in with word of mouth, positive reviews allowed these books to gain a following etc..

Marvel and DC are not in the business of giving these books a chance, at least not in their main universes. And honestly this isn't the market for it. Real books constantly have a flucuating top ten lists and all that, but their market is so much larger and appeals to so many people, and quite frankly isn't so set in their ways. If you chose only to read spider-man as a comic reader, then Marvel will happily provide you with enough spider-man to keep you busy. If you choose only to read Dresden files as a book reader you're simply not going to be reading for a full year or more until the next book comes out.

Marvel and DC aren't the ones unwilling to give these books a chance, the fans are.

Don't blame Marvel for this, blame everyone who didn't buy Ghost Rider.

[Rockman]

Marvel and DC aren't the ones unwilling to give these books a chance, the fans are.

Don't blame Marvel for this, blame everyone who didn't buy Ghost Rider.

Marvel and DC have created this climate with their business plans.

Back when Claremont wanted to retire cyclops for good, they cut his feet out from under him. They've constantly been a state of stagnation for years, because they were afraid that if the characters which first drew them to their comics were gone then so would the fans. Fans of the medium exist, they support the books which deserve. What marvel and dc is losing are fans of the medium, they only have fans of the characters, and not many people care to read the same story recycled thousands of times over.

[nietoperz]

Marvel and DC aren't the ones unwilling to give these books a chance, the fans are.

Don't blame Marvel for this, blame everyone who didn't buy Ghost Rider.

I mostly agree, but also reckon that Marvel in particular have been awfully trigger-happy of late. Books tend to die very quickly, and that has the unfortunate effect of creating an environment where fans are unwilling to pick up new titles because they don't want to get invested in a book that's just going to get canceled out from under them. It's a crazy self-fulfilling prophecy, I know, but it's also an understandable reaction.

[Jubilee]

Marvel and DC have created this climate with their business plans.

Back when Claremont wanted to retire cyclops for good, they cut his feet out from under him. They've constantly been a state of stagnation for years, because they were afraid that if the characters which first drew them to their comics were gone then so would the fans. Fans of the medium exist, they support the books which deserve. What marvel and dc is losing are fans of the medium, they only have fans of the characters, and not many people care to read the same story recycled thousands of times over.

Perfectly put. I've been saying this for years. Seems more and more people here are posting the same sort of stuff now!

[e_galston]

Legion of Monsters, a comic you've praised in the past, placed lower than Ghost Rider and Alpha Flight:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=35337

The main goal, for any publisher worth a damn, is to publish solid material.

your point? Legion of Monsters wasn't ever billed as anything more than a mini series. so of course its not gonna sell gangbusters like say a Bendis Avengers book.

[The Bass]

Legion of Monsters is pretty great, actually.

[sdsichero]

prove it

Prove what?

[sdsichero]

Sad that Liss' Black Panther is ending.

[GHERU]

wait,

there's a Ghost Rider ongoing?

[DMM]

wait,

there's a Ghost Rider ongoing?

that's what I was thinking. I'm a huge Ghost Rider fan, and yet I didn't know about this.

[alaska1125]

wait,

there's a Ghost Rider ongoing?

Not anymore.

[The Bass]

wait,

there's a Ghost Rider ongoing?

Not really. She doesn't count, and Johnny's in space. I like Rob Williams, but this is a mess. Matt Clark's art is a mess too.

[alaska1125]

I mostly agree, but also reckon that Marvel in particular have been awfully trigger-happy of late. Books tend to die very quickly, and that has the unfortunate effect of creating an environment where fans are unwilling to pick up new titles because they don't want to get invested in a book that's just going to get canceled out from under them. It's a crazy self-fulfilling prophecy, I know, but it's also an understandable reaction.

Well put. Knowing that Marvel will can a miniseries(!) before it ends, promote a mini to an ongoing only to immediately turn around and cancel it, and kill previously announced books with a couple of issues of art already done gives me zero faith in any already announce upcoming books (I'm looking at Defenders here). I'm not sure what the strategy here is because I'm now already predisposed to ignore new offerings from the company.

[ReturnoftheMack]

I think it's everyone's fault.

The Big 2 have gone back to the way they published books in the 90s. Their shortcomings were well stated by AMS above. The way they promote comics is also laughable. They always end their promotion with the retailers because all that matters is order, but don't get fans to pick up the books while they are there.

Diamond is at fault for putting a stranglehold on how much money retailers and publishers make. The rates are so ridiculous that neither the publishers nor the retailers can do that much to order/deliver extra.

Retailers are the worst IMO. I know we have some on this board, but I've had to deal with them. The Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons is a stereotype that exists. They do nothing to help fans reach new books. They don't sell their actual product and only really bitch about how they are being screwed. There are a million reasons why the majority of retailers suck and if you are on this board and are different, then I don't mean you.

The fans. Fans won't pick up anything new. It's irritating. Instead of buying an 8th Wolverine book, try Herc. Instead of another Avengers book, buy Ghost Rider. It's like people who watch every CSI and Law & Order, but won't watch Person of Interest.

But it's ok. Comics published on paper are almost dead. Soon they will be mostly digital and I won't care anyway.