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[DonDaddyD]

So I got given Skyrim as a Xmas present from my son.

I've started it three times the first to get the race right, I originally went Breton but decided that the dragonborn should be Nord (like Tiber Septim).

The Second and third restarts were solely based on what faction. Not as clear cut as other games I'm not sure who is evil in Skyrim.

Here's the thing Tiber Septim, a Nord from Skyrim, conquered the continent and created the empire (Skyrim, Hammerfell, Cyeodil et al). [It's a little like Conan, amother barbarian, conquering a foreign land and becoming king...]

So great was ol'Tiber he was deified and renamed Talos, a god. The Eight became Nine and we all spent a lifetime saving Cyrodil and the Empire from the Oblivion Crisis.

So as a fully signed up Empire man I feel it is my duty to once again serve them.

But the Empire has fallen on hard timez and weak leadership. As such have agreed to outlaw all worship of Talos, the Man-God that started the whole Empire. I can't abide this.

So Stormcloaks seem the way forward
Buf if Skyrim goes independant then what is to stop the other provinces from going rogue. The Empire needs Skyrim and all the other provinces to help defend itself against the same Elves that have forced the anti Talos doctrine.

So whike i agree with the Stormcloaks cause the possible outcome could be detrimental.

Who would you go for?

[doombug]

My experience throughout the game so far and even the beginning has the Empire killing innocent citizens who they just believe to be attached to the resistance.

The Stormcloaks might be racist asshats at moments but they tend not to tie people up just to "question" them.

[Strict31]

There is no clear cut good and evil choice, by purposeful design.

If you go with the Imperials, you side with guys who favored appeasement, and who are more than willing to execute people innocent of any offense, just to kill Ulfric and to send a message.

But at the same time, the Stormcloaks aren't fighting for freedom from Imperial tyranny, because no such goddamn thing exists. Skyrim isn't being oppressed under the thumb of the Empire. Fuck, the line of Septims are Nords. Nobody's rolling into town taking their shit and fucking their bitches.

Ulfric is fighting a war based entirely upon personal ambition. He has no reason to kill Elisef's hubby other than the fact the dude is in his way as high king of Skyrim.

To make matters worse, the Stormcloaks and Ulfric are racists. They hate the other races and either want them removed from Skyrim, or want them dead. And the Nord claim to Skyrim is somewhat dubious in the first place. Just look at the Forsworn and King Madanach. They hold a fairly legit claim to the lands of the Western Reach, but the Nords began a violent and bloody campaign to put the Forsworn down. As well as anyone who happened to be standing particularly near.

Ulfric lost me when I overhead him planning to attack Whiterun and burn the place down around the Jarl. I liked the people of Whiterun. It's where Aela hangs out and since she's the only NPC who routinely flashes us with side-boob, that made me suspect of Ulfric. And then, I found out about the racism, and how they made a brutal, ruthless enemy of the Forsworn, it became clear their cause was not just.

The Nords of the Stromcloak rebellion are no more angels than the Imperials.

So, which side is the right side? The side that allows YOU to kill the shit out of everyone who's crossed you. Which is actually NO SIDE, because certain NPCs remain the fuck UNKILLABLE, even after you've completed the Civil Wars quest line.

I would have joined neither side, but a glitch occured that didn't allow me to proceed in the main quest without accepting the Imperial offer to join them. My plan from the beginning of the game was to track down general Tolius and kill him for that shit he pulled in the beginning of the game. You don't put an axe to my neck without me Thu'uming that punk ass. But the glitch removed that choice from me. And I wanted to kill Ulfric for killing Elisef's husband, and for being a generally racist bastich.

But once you choose a side, you can ultimately only kill the leader of the other side. The leader of your own side remains an unkillable NPC. After I'd put the kibosh on Ulfric, I put an arrow into Tolius...and by that time, I'm scoring one-hit kills with my arrows, so that should have been adios muchachos for that nigga. But he can't die. He doesn't even turn hostile.

So it doesn't fuckin' matter which side you choose. Both sides are a box of cocks.

[Strict31]

The Stormcloaks might be racist asshats at moments but they tend not to tie people up just to "question" them.

Yeah, they just tend to walk right into their throne room and murder them with a dragon shout.

If you do the Madanach storyline, you meet a guy who has no connection to the Forsworn, who was thrown in jail by the Nords...AFTER THEY MURDERED HIS DAUGHTER IN FRONT OF HIM. She had no ties to the Forsworn either; she just begged the Nords to take her instead of murdering her father. And they complied.

[avengingtitan]

Its actually the only quest I have competed because I dont wanna choose which horrible side to take.

[doombug]

Yeah, they just tend to walk right into their throne room and murder them with a dragon shout.

If you do the Madanach storyline, you meet a guy who has no connection to the Forsworn, who was thrown in jail by the Nords...AFTER THEY MURDERED HIS DAUGHTER IN FRONT OF HIM. She had no ties to the Forsworn either; she just begged the Nords to take her instead of murdering her father. And they complied.

I'm hoping I can talk Ulfric out of the shit with Whiterun when I get to that point because both that Jarl and the people oif that city have always been cool to me and the companions/thieves guild/dark brotherhood/college of winterhold. You know come to think of it if the game was a built a little stronger, you should have the choice if you run enough factions to shut down the imperials and the Stormcloaks and run shit your way for Skyrim.

[DonDaddyD]

So I should have gone Imperial in the hope that the liberal minded Empire survives and a strong Emperor eventually rises up to bitch slap the Aldmeri...

Thing is Tamrial was built on war and conquerors. The Elves subjugated the humans. The humans rose up and overthrough the elves - St Alesia. Years later Tiber Septim conquered the surrounding lands to create the Empire. There was also the whole Umriel and Nights of the Nine. And thats all before you get to the whole Daedra issues.

Seems to me this isn't your land of democracy. So with War being a necessary evil we have to look at what the people are fighting for. I mean sure the guys at the top are self serving - I'm sure St Alesia, Tiber etc could see the crown but under Alesia the humans were fighting for freedom and unity respectively.

This time round it seems that the Stormcloaks simply want to worship their God. The other Eight sre Elven in origin right...

The Imperials - who are now and unthinkably puppets of the same elves it ousted to establish itself - simply want to keep the status quo to maintain the Empire and are willing to sacrifce the God who made the Empire to do it. I'm sure Tiber isn't happy.

Surely Stormcloaks have the greater cause?

Who would Tiber/Talos settle with?

[Chris]

Imperials.

I don't want to join the racist assholes.

[Strict31]

So I should have gone Imperial in the hope that the liberal minded Empire survives and a strong Emperor eventually rises up to bitch slap the Aldmeri...

Thing is Tamrial was built on war and conquerors. The Elves subjugated the humans. The humans rose up and overthrough the elves - St Alesia. Years later Tiber Septim conquered the surrounding lands to create the Empire. There was also the whole Umriel and Nights of the Nine. And thats all before you get to the whole Daedra issues.

Seems to me this isn't your land of democracy. So with War being a necessary evil we have to look at what the people are fighting for. I mean sure the guys at the top are self serving - I'm sure St Alesia, Tiber etc could see the crown but under Alesia the humans were fighting for freedom and unity respectively.

This time round it seems that the Stormcloaks simply want to worship their God. The other Eight sre Elven in origin right...

The Imperials - who are now and unthinkably puppets of the same elves it ousted to establish itself - simply want to keep the status quo to maintain the Empire and are willing to sacrifce the God who made the Empire to do it. I'm sure Tiber isn't happy.

Surely Stormcloaks have the greater cause?

Who would Tiber/Talos settle with?

Talos would probably side with the muthafucking Dragonborn, dude.

And subjecting your country to a civil war is about the dumbest way to make them strong against an external threat.

[S.F. Jude Terror]

I love all the faux outrage over these "racist" video game characters. You're not talking about black and white here. You're talking about lizard people and elves in a fantasy medieval setting.

I don't think I've ever seen Chris make a post about being upset about racism in real life, but I've seen at least two about the Stormcloaks. And this shit is rampant all over the Internet.



Anyway, I'm with Strict, I wish I could kill them all.

[MrBlack]

I'm sympathetic to the Stormcloak cause, but it is worth keeping in mind that the Thalmor wouldn't have turned their attention to Skyrim if not for Ulfric's rabble-rousing. Plus, the High King himself says that he would likely have sided with Ulfric if asked, but Ulfric decided to make an example of him. He's more concerned with his own ambition than with what is best for Skyrim, and I couldn't side with him on that basis alone.

[Chris]

I don't think I've ever seen Chris make a post about being upset about racism in real life, but I've seen at least two about the Stormcloaks. And this shit is rampant all over the Internet.

I've discussed racism when it's come up here.



























Basically, whenever Thunderstorm posts.

[Chris]

I love all the faux outrage over these "racist" video game characters. You're not talking about black and white here. You're talking about lizard people and elves in a fantasy medieval setting.

What does black and white or real life have to do with this? You're playing a game that has you making decisions based on this fantasy medieval setting. If lizard people and elves are the races being discussed, what difference does it make?

I mean, sure.. both sides suck. But you have to pick one.

[S.F. Jude Terror]

What does black and white or real life have to do with this? You're playing a game that has you making decisions based on this fantasy medieval setting. If lizard people and elves are the races being discussed, what difference does it make?

I mean, sure.. both sides suck. But you have to pick one.

Because the idea of "all men are created equal" kind of goes out the window when you have shit like elves with magical powers or lizard people in a world where people are constantly warring and killing each other, and something like nationality is a relatively new concept and important for survival. You can't apply modern concepts of equality there.

[Chris]

Because the idea of "all men are created equal" kind of goes out the window when you have shit like elves with magical powers or lizard people in a world where people are constantly warring and killing each other, and something like nationality is a relatively new concept and important for survival. You can't apply modern concepts of equality there.

You can apply concepts of right and wrong, though.