The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

[Victorian Squid]

Maybe they think he's the right guy to help shuffle these books off-stage, who knows? Maybe he's the first person they asked who actually said yes.

[avengingtitan]

To be fair to Liefeld, the issues of Hawk & Dove that he has written haven't come out yet. You can't lay the book's failure completely at his door.

Watch me.

[nietoperz]

Watch me.

I'll bet you say that to all the boys.

[Victorian Squid]

IGN has a new interview with Rob about his new gigs:

http://comics.ign.com/articles/121/1216485p1.html

[misac]

Yeah, it seems out of proportion (no pun intended--okay, I intended it).

Seriously though, I know what you mean. He has a lot of fans, though, if you ever see him at a convention his lines are massive. And it is a little odd that so many comics fans love to point out anatomical impossibilities he draws while giving most other comics artists a pass or even praising them for the completely unrealistic stuff they put out. Frankly, that new JRJR cover for AVX is every bit as shit as anything Liefeld's ever done.

[Chris]

Oh I can see that - I remember having this argument with a friend of mine back in the heyday of his X-Force run. The guy was adamant that Liefeld was the greatest artist he had ever seen and I just couldn't keep a straight face when he went on about it!

The thing is though, last night Chris Roberson (a guy whose work I genuinely enjoy) went into a rant about this on Twitter, basically damning this without actually mentioning Liefeld's name once but all the while accusing DC of going backwards, pointing out all the innovative DC books from the 90s and bemoaning the state of things today, claiming that DC was going back to everything that made that decade crappy. I mean, never mind Snyder or Lemire's books or the impending arrival of China Miéville, he was griping that back then we had innovative runs by Morrison, Robinson and JH Williams III and ignoring the fact that all three of those guys are still at DC and working on the New 52, all in the rush to get his licks in on Rob Liefeld. It just seemed silly (not to mention pretty unprofessional).

I can see his frustration, though. Why are guys like Scott Lobdell, Howard Mackie, and Rob Liefeld even at DC? Much less writing several books? I mean, honestly? When is the last time ANY of these people did anything good?

I'm sure a guy like Roberson would've loved to get in on some of the action. I wouldn't be surprised if he even pitched some ideas.

[BlueStreak]

IGN has a new interview with Rob about his new gigs:

http://comics.ign.com/articles/121/1216485p1.html

I love his one response where he offhandedly mentions how he's responsible for a bunch of Marvel's big stuff right now (with X-Sanction, Uncanny X-Force and the Deadpool books).

I will say that Prophet, the first of his Image EXTREME books that's coming out, is quite good. I'm interested to know how much of a hand he had in plotting and direction of that book.

[GLX]

I love his one response where he offhandedly mentions how he's responsible for a bunch of Marvel's big stuff right now (with X-Sanction, Uncanny X-Force and the Deadpool books).

I will say that Prophet, the first of his Image EXTREME books that's coming out, is quite good. I'm interested to know how much of a hand he had in plotting and direction of that book.

If I recall correctly, Brandon Graham talks with Rob about his plans for the book and Rob gives his thoughts on it.

[SilverPhoenix]

Oh I can see that - I remember having this argument with a friend of mine back in the heyday of his X-Force run. The guy was adamant that Liefeld was the greatest artist he had ever seen and I just couldn't keep a straight face when he went on about it!

The thing is though, last night Chris Roberson (a guy whose work I genuinely enjoy) went into a rant about this on Twitter, basically damning this without actually mentioning Liefeld's name once but all the while accusing DC of going backwards, pointing out all the innovative DC books from the 90s and bemoaning the state of things today, claiming that DC was going back to everything that made that decade crappy. I mean, never mind Snyder or Lemire's books or the impending arrival of China Miéville, he was griping that back then we had innovative runs by Morrison, Robinson and JH Williams III and ignoring the fact that all three of those guys are still at DC and working on the New 52, all in the rush to get his licks in on Rob Liefeld. It just seemed silly (not to mention pretty unprofessional).

Me, despite my dislike of his work, I hope Liefeld makes these books enjoyable and therefore top-sellers. A strong DC Comics is good for the industry.

This is something that I would love to see.

[BlueStreak]

Oh I can see that - I remember having this argument with a friend of mine back in the heyday of his X-Force run. The guy was adamant that Liefeld was the greatest artist he had ever seen and I just couldn't keep a straight face when he went on about it!

The thing is though, last night Chris Roberson (a guy whose work I genuinely enjoy) went into a rant about this on Twitter, basically damning this without actually mentioning Liefeld's name once but all the while accusing DC of going backwards, pointing out all the innovative DC books from the 90s and bemoaning the state of things today, claiming that DC was going back to everything that made that decade crappy. I mean, never mind Snyder or Lemire's books or the impending arrival of China Miéville, he was griping that back then we had innovative runs by Morrison, Robinson and JH Williams III and ignoring the fact that all three of those guys are still at DC and working on the New 52, all in the rush to get his licks in on Rob Liefeld. It just seemed silly (not to mention pretty unprofessional).

Me, despite my dislike of his work, I hope Liefeld makes these books enjoyable and therefore top-sellers. A strong DC Comics is good for the industry.

There's a lot of frustration about this, though. There's a lot of good creators who have been pushed out of DC and Marvel to be replaced by friends of Harras and Quesada. For instance, Sterling Gates was pushed off Hawk and Dove the second that his exclusive contract ran out and hasn't been contacted since. Roberson's another person who went from putting out good comics for DC to getting nothing. It's not something against Liefeld, it's against the publishers who have been increasingly turning more and more to in-house writers that they can control a lot easier. With Liefeld writing three titles, how much pushback do you think he's going to give an editor that wants to move a book a certain way? DC wants creators who will write what they tell them to write. Lobdell, Mackie and Liefeld apperantly are those guys. (And that's not to take away from their creativity or skills as writers, but rather their willingness to accept marching orders.)

[Victorian Squid]

I love his one response where he offhandedly mentions how he's responsible for a bunch of Marvel's big stuff right now (with X-Sanction, Uncanny X-Force and the Deadpool books).

I will say that Prophet, the first of his Image EXTREME books that's coming out, is quite good. I'm interested to know how much of a hand he had in plotting and direction of that book.

I forget that myself (that Rob Liefeld created all those characters in the '90s), since I didn't read mainstream comics for most of the '90s--although I did read a lot of it in back-issues after I bought all those thousands of comics from a dead shop in Dayton. Still, if you weren't in on the zeitgeist of that time first-hand reading monthly comics, it's not the same. I believe Rob when he says those days were a blast. I guess I can't blame him for the self-promotion, even it does seem to come with a little defensiveness too. I think that shows a degree of sensitivity to the side of comics fandom that hates him.

[Victorian Squid]

There's a lot of frustration about this, though. There's a lot of good creators who have been pushed out of DC and Marvel to be replaced by friends of Harras and Quesada. For instance, Sterling Gates was pushed off Hawk and Dove the second that his exclusive contract ran out and hasn't been contacted since. Roberson's another person who went from putting out good comics for DC to getting nothing. It's not something against Liefeld, it's against the publishers who have been increasingly turning more and more to in-house writers that they can control a lot easier. With Liefeld writing three titles, how much pushback do you think he's going to give an editor that wants to move a book a certain way? DC wants creators who will write what they tell them to write. Lobdell, Mackie and Liefeld apperantly are those guys. (And that's not to take away from their creativity or skills as writers, but rather their willingness to accept marching orders.)

There are definitely a lot of people who at least feel they are being shut out from Marvel and/or DC at the moment, but it's not a currently expansive field to want to be a part of either. Where it gets tricky is talking about individual writers, discussing their merits and recent output, and speculating about why it may be true in their cases.

That's definitely one side of the argument, though.

[Doc Jon]

Well, it really comes down to one question for me: when was the last time Liefeld had success with an ongoing that he was writing/drawing?

Liefeld has been good at drawing attention to projects, and I think some of it comes from morbid curiosity. But sustained success hasn't really been there.

I'd really be interested to see what his longest succesful run has been since the 90's.

[Chris]

Well, it really comes down to one question for me: when was the last time Liefeld had success with an ongoing that he was writing/drawing?

Liefeld has been good at drawing attention to projects, and I think some of it comes from morbid curiosity. But sustained success hasn't really been there.

I'd really be interested to see what his longest succesful run has been since the 90's.

Deadpool Corps

[Doc Jon]

Deadpool Corps

Right. I avoided all that.