The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

[habitual]

So you decided to become Judge Dredd and become the law of the thread because I tried to make some jokes? Wow. Are you really talking about ego.

I see how you aren't saying that I did anything to you...

And it's funny that you of all people are talking about being better than people.

Be serious, you weren't making a joke at all, your intention was to start shit, and guess what you got it, congrats.

You can dress it up however you want Frag, but, we both know it wasn't any kind of joke.

That you would even try to sell that bullshit tells me you know you were wrong.

Hab

[blah]

I am an atheist, but I don't like most atheist organizations.

Ridicule doesn't convince people.

I think people need to figure out the truth, but using logic.

People aren't convinced by logic; there's something more to believing than knowing premises and conclusions. You can give all the logic in the world and the person doesn't believe.
I'm concerned with the anger and bitterness that's everywhere 'cause those things don't give good results. So if you gimme a bitter ad about hamburgers, I wouldn't like it either.
Call for good things and leave it at that, but don't be bitter or angry.
And I don't think I'm wrong in believing in what I believe. I'm not wrong else I wouldn't believe in what I believe. Sure, there are doubts, but belief... really is out of my hands, it's something to do more with the heart, and my heart has rested in these beliefs and that's that. To the core, there is no certainty and life is pretty cold, so don't add bitterness and anger to the world, and maybe let things like justice and seeing take their places.
But a lot of you keep on fighting and spitting venom, even though most of you are atheists who, I imagine, would have a better grip of themselves.

[ReturnoftheMack]

Be serious, you weren't making a joke at all, your intention was to start shit, and guess what you got it, congrats.

You can dress it up however you want Frag, but, we both know it wasn't any kind of joke.

That you would even try to sell that bullshit tells me you know you were wrong.

Hab

What post offended you so much? What was it that hurt your feelings Hab?

[Doozer]

I'm fully confident that you have no idea what your talking about in this respect, at all.

Please continue with supplying me with more "facts" instead of addressing my points.

I already get that you don't "get it", maybe you can elaborate on exactly how I'm "ignorant".

Hab

I'm not saying your ignorant, I'm saying you failed to comprehend the fundamentals of the education you are claiming.

An ethnography that posited a single belief as a worldview, unless you were studying some pathology that narrowed a subject's ability to contextualize outside of that single belief (IDK, maybe someone suffering from schizophrenia or a severe phobia), would be laughable because it automatically shuts out every area of focus that isn't touched by that belief (it in fact discounts them as something other than part of a worldview), which in this case would be the question "do you believe in deities?" A yes or no question does not an interview make, from anthropology to journalism.

Worldview being defined as a single belief is so myopic as to be completely useless as a functional definition. You've created one datapoint. You can't draw a line of reasoning, let alone a framework of it, with only one point.

[ReturnoftheMack]

People aren't convinced by logic; there's something more to believing than knowing premises and conclusions. You can give all the logic in the world and the person doesn't believe.
I'm concerned with the anger and bitterness that's everywhere 'cause those things don't give good results. So if you gimme a bitter ad about hamburgers, I wouldn't like it either.
Call for good things and leave it at that, but don't be bitter or angry.
And I don't think I'm wrong in believing in what I believe. I'm not wrong else I wouldn't believe in what I believe. Sure, there are doubts, but belief... really is out of my hands, it's something to do more with the heart, and my heart has rested in these beliefs and that's
that. To the core, there is no certainty and life is pretty cold, so don't add bitterness and anger to the world, and maybe let things like justice and seeing take their places.
But a lot of you keep on fighting and spitting venom, even though most of you are atheists who, I imagine, would have a better grip of themselves.

People can be convinced by logic if they allow themselves to be. It's why there are a growing number of atheists.

I really do believe that religion is dying. It's a slow death and won't happen in our lifetimes, but we're getting there.

I don't begrudge religious people. Most of my family is religious. I understand it's hard to see through the veil. I don't tell people they suck for being religious. I won't yell at them. I know what they believe is important to them. But if people want to take the time and learn the facts, that's where atheist organizations serve a purpose IMO.

[ZombieRed]

People can be convinced by logic if they allow themselves to be. It's why there are a growing number of atheists.

I really do believe that religion is dying. It's a slow death and won't happen in our lifetimes, but we're getting there.

I don't begrudge religious people. Most of my family is religious. I understand it's hard to see through the veil. I don't tell people they suck for being religious. I won't yell at them. I know what they believe is important to them. But if people want to take the time and learn the facts, that's where atheist organizations serve a purpose IMO.

See I don't think it's dying or at least the organizations will still be there. Most people who go to church don't deeply believe in everything in the Bible, Quran or other holy script.

But religious spaces do serve their purpose. People go there to think if they don't necessarily follow everything the priest says. Sermons get listened to with a critical ear, but they are listened to and they make someone think. The words were the catalyst for this thinking and possibly debate (if in my family) after mass. The church is quiet and it can just be a place to meditate (unless your protestant I guess).
They are also a common meeting place for people to discuss well anything. The other thing that the religious space offers is a place for a person to showcase talent. Singing, Playing Guitar, Public Speaking, are all things that a religious space is conducive to.

So while I agree with you somewhat. I don't think it's as simple as religion is dying.

[ReturnoftheMack]

See I don't think it's dying or at least the organizations will still be there. Most people who go to church don't deeply believe in everything in the Bible, Quran or other holy script.
But religious spaces do serve their purpose. People go there to think if they don't necessarily follow everything the priest says. Sermons get listened to with a critical ear, but they are listened to and they make someone think. The words were the catalyst for this thinking and possibly debate (if in my family) after mass. The church is quiet and it can just be a place to meditate (unless your protestant I guess).
They are also a common meeting place for people to discuss well anything. The other thing that the religious space offers is a place for a person to showcase talent. Singing, Playing Guitar, Public Speaking, are all things that a religious space is conducive to.

So while I agree with you somewhat. I don't think it's as simple as religion is dying.

You're probably right. I should have gone with declining.

[Strict31]

I'm not readying 17 pages of this shit and sifting through the Fraghab Wars. All I want to know is if it was ever decided which biblical characters we most want to see nude??

Well, I hear Mary Magdalene was a total slut.

[Stephen Day]

I already outlined my idea about this. Religions are just theories about existence and what's out there, Atheism is also a theory. Personally, I have my own that isn't in line with any religion or with Atheism. Like all theories they can be picked apart and made weaker. With religion it's easy but it can be done with Atheism.

Galileo disproved the old theory of the earth in relation to the sun but he didn't just leave it at that. He offered up a new idea, and backed it up with evidence that proved his idea was correct. It's not the same as Atheism.

This is the key part of your post I'd say. Frag, your Galileo example doesn't really equate to this situation. Galileo had proof about what he was saying. When it comes to Atheism and Religion there is no absolute proof in the end that either is correct. I'd personally say that there's more evidence for an Atheist's position, but I'm full aware that others would disagree.

In the end I agree that an Atheist shouldn't back down from putting his, or her, position forward. However, there comes a point where the person you're talking to is either going to accept your position or they're not. That's where the live and let live position becomes most important.

I also have to say that I mean live and let live for both parties.

[S.F. Jude Terror]

It's funny, I'm an atheist but don't want to be. How do I convince myself that logic is wrong?

[blah]

People can be convinced by logic if they allow themselves to be. It's why there are a growing number of atheists.

I really do believe that religion is dying. It's a slow death and won't happen in our lifetimes, but we're getting there.

I don't begrudge religious people. Most of my family is religious. I understand it's hard to see through the veil. I don't tell people they suck for being religious. I won't yell at them. I know what they believe is important to them. But if people want to take the time and learn the facts, that's where atheist organizations serve a purpose IMO.

And how does this allowance happen? By giving them more logic?
Why do more people allow themselves to be convinced by logic now? Because of logic?

Stop that 'seeing through the veil' stuff please, which means that I'm not seeing the truth; you don't know me enough to judge this about me or other people who believe in God. A person who seriously believes in God may be very considerate and you know it, learning the philosophy and science and art and history you learned.
I'm not blinded by some veil just because I believe in God.

[Benderbrau]

It's funny, I'm an atheist but don't want to be. How do I convince myself that logic is wrong?

Well if all that drug use didn't do it I don't know what will

[ReturnoftheMack]

It's funny, I'm an atheist but don't want to be. How do I convince myself that logic is wrong?

I'm with you.

[Doozer]

See I don't think it's dying or at least the organizations will still be there. Most people who go to church don't deeply believe in everything in the Bible, Quran or other holy script.

But religious spaces do serve their purpose. People go there to think if they don't necessarily follow everything the priest says. Sermons get listened to with a critical ear, but they are listened to and they make someone think. The words were the catalyst for this thinking and possibly debate (if in my family) after mass. The church is quiet and it can just be a place to meditate (unless your protestant I guess).
They are also a common meeting place for people to discuss well anything. The other thing that the religious space offers is a place for a person to showcase talent. Singing, Playing Guitar, Public Speaking, are all things that a religious space is conducive to.

So while I agree with you somewhat. I don't think it's as simple as religion is dying.

I think ecclesiastical skepticism is a tradition that's fallen by the wayside in a lot of American evangelical denominations because of the insistence on the literal nature of the Bible. You can't sit around and think about what a verse "meant" or whether or not the priest got the allegory right (or if he even knows what the fuck he's talking about) if the verse means exactly and literally what it says.

[ReturnoftheMack]

And how does this allowance happen? By giving them more logic?
Why do more people allow themselves to be convinced by logic now? Because of logic?

Stop that 'seeing through the veil' stuff please, which means that I'm not seeing the truth; you don't know me enough to judge this about me or other people who believe in God. A person who seriously believes in God may be very considerate and you know it, learning
the philosophy and science and art and history you learned.
I'm not blinded by some veil just because I believe in God.

Jesus Christ (lutz)! Does everyone feel the need to pick a fight with me today?

You said that you can't change what you believe because it's ingrained in you. Then you aren't ready to follow the logic. I'm not going to try and convince you. You're not a bad person because you believe in God. I didn't say that. But I do believe that you don't open yourself up to the fallacies that exist. But the one thing you should realize is that you are the one taking it personally. Did you ever think that may be because deep down you know I'm right?