The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

[LobsterJ]

Reviving Bucky.

I don't care how "cool" Winter Soldier is, Bucky being dead was one of the 3 absolutes of the Marvel universe. Breaking that rule was a travesty.

Agreed, didn't like it then and don't like it now. Everyone seemed to ignore how "90s" the whole thing was. The teen sidekick was actually a ...super assassin! With long hair, a cyborg arm, and lots of guns! And ties to Wolverine!

[Apache Chef]

The thing with Gwen Stacy and Norman Osborne remains the stupidest thing I've ever read in comics ever. So that is my vote, even though Gwen was long gone before I was ever born.

Even beats out Cap not knowing what myspace is.

[Apache Chef]

Agreed, didn't like it then and don't like it now. Everyone seemed to ignore how "90s" the whole thing was. The teen sidekick was actually a ...super assassin! With long hair, a cyborg arm, and lots of guns! And ties to Wolverine!

Yeah, but it still worked somehow. It never should have, but it did.

[Benderbrau]

No the person who is the expert on the phoenix force because she was the host up until like a year ago, is pretty much sitting out the crossover except for the tie-ins with X-Men Legacy

The Phoenix being a copy of and not the real Jean Grey was itself another bad idea.

[draco x]

They tried to do equally drastic things with Superman and Batman at the time, but didn't have the balls to go through with it. Superman died and Batman got forcibly retired. But because those two are DC's iconic bread winners, everyone knew that wouldn't be permanent. GL, who was much less an iconic bread winner than either, was expendable. And already had a tradition of other characters taking up the legacy. Just like Barry, they realized they could kill Hal off and still have a monthly GL title with some other character in the suit and ring.

But the comparison is inexact. Neither Supes nor Batman had any event pushing them past the edge of self-control as GL did. Hal was on the very edge when Coast City was destroyed. One of his closest associates (Superman) was dead. Everyone he knew and loved was dead, and there was nothing he could do to save them. He was physically broken after his battle with Mongul.

He was on the very edge when the Guardians told him "NO."

Hal didn't snap just because he was suddenly a murdering dick. He snapped for very believable reasons.

Exactly my point with Batman and Superman. DC primarily cares about them and the other characters are considered expandable. The same thing with Sue Dibny getting raped by Dr. Light a few years ago-if they had tried doing that to Lois Lane, the editorial staff would have caught a shitstorm from the fans for ever thinking of that idea. The difference is that Lois Lane is a very important character while Sue Dibny is a nobody by comparison.
Also with Hal, again I can understand Hal going over the deep end over Coast City but all of it seemed so jump-the-shark to me. It was only 4 issues until Hal went fully bad after he fought Mongul and two issues before where we were introduced to Kyle. I mean replacing Hal as GL is nothing new as DC already did that with Guy Gardner and John Stewart but the introduction of Kyle felt shoe-horned. Why didn't DC use either of those two to replace Hal again? Because neither of them were popular enough to fill Hal's role, so Kyle was primarily created as a cash grab to draw younger readers. And like I said before, how does Hal losing Coast City translate to him wanting to mess with reality in the Zero Hour again and acting like a Snidely Whiplash-esque super-villain? The answer is bad editorial decision and shitty writing.

[draco x]

The thing with Gwen Stacy and Norman Osborne remains the stupidest thing I've ever read in comics ever. So that is my vote, even though Gwen was long gone before I was ever born.

Even beats out Cap not knowing what myspace is.

Maybe they could get Superboy Prime to retcon punch Sins Past out of existence so it is never mentioned again.

[draco x]

I don't know how much build up you really need. If you suddenly lost everyone you pretty much loved or knew and you conceivably had the power to stop it from happening, I think a good portion of people would snap as well.

I get a little tired of all the freaking build up in today's comics. It's all decompressed bs that could be accomplished in one issue what it now takes 20. I'll take Hal's "abrupt" change to the 6 months it took Ultimate Spidey to even get into the fucking costume.

Actually Hal still had Carol, Aresia, Tom, Ollie and his family still alive at the end of the Coast City massacre so he still had some people he loved pretty much alive. Also, Superman did return from the dead as well. Also, why didn't Hal just hunt down Mongul again and just kill him when he turned into Parallax instead of slaughtering the corps and the Guardians? Plus why would the Guardians go to Sinestro for help to stop Hal and make him a Green Lantern again? This is like the Ned Leeds as the Hobgoblin crap Marvel pulled if you asked me.

[draco x]

The Phoenix being a copy of and not the real Jean Grey was itself another bad idea.

Who the hell came up with that moronic idea at Marvel exactly?

[draco x]

Yeah, but it still worked somehow. It never should have, but it did.

How long does anyone think the new Winter Soldier series is going to last?

[chap22]

Who the hell came up with that moronic idea at Marvel exactly?

Kurt Busiek, i believe. and i liked it, myself.

[chap22]

How long does anyone think the new Winter Soldier series is going to last?

hopefully a long time. it's awesome.

[draco x]

Agreed, didn't like it then and don't like it now. Everyone seemed to ignore how "90s" the whole thing was. The teen sidekick was actually a ...super assassin! With long hair, a cyborg arm, and lots of guns! And ties to Wolverine!

Just wait until they bring back Gwen and Uncle Ben from the dead, bro.

[draco x]

I cared about the change they made to Speedball. Turning a character like Speedball into that Godawful abomination Penance was definitely one of the worst things to come out of Civil War.

You forgot the turning the New Warriors into reality TV chumps that got killed for how stupid they were portrayed. Not to mention Peter unmasking himself for the whole world due to the Stamford incident-which he had no part of.

[draco x]

hopefully a long time. it's awesome.

Let me restate my question: How long does anyone realistically think it will last before they pull it for whatever reason?

[draco x]

Kurt Busiek, i believe. and i liked it, myself.

Fair enough but as I said, I hate retcons. The only two I have ever defended was the Hal Jordan as Parallax thing and overturning Ned Leeds as the Hobgoblin clusterfuck that helped to ruin one of my favorite Marvel villains.