The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

[Zechs]

Okay I've been quiet enough on the subject. But I have to put the greatest character assassination of them all, the one everyone knew I put in here the moment this thread was created...

Cassandra Cain.

Oh let me count the ways DC has screwed over this character.

- They canceled her ongoing not because of bad sales. Nope, the book was higher than a lot of DC books that survived onto OYL. No she was canceled the book for two reasons. #1 They used the excuse that the Batman Family of books couldn't have more than one Bat related female. Funny how that doesn't seem to be an excuse with two red-headed female Bat-characters running around now isn't it?

The other being they wanted to increase the sales of Robin which was festering behind that book and needed something to increase life back into the book. So OYL and having Cassandra on Tim's book seemed simple enough science.

.......

- The heel turn. Okay forget simplicity. DC bungled this one. The Batgirl writer gave whomever was going to handle the character a simple enough cause to be "evil", to make sure the tragedy of Bludhaven would never happen again. To kill those who deserved death.

What does do? It gives the job to a writer, Adam Beechen, who officially admitted he never read the Batgirl ongoing and breezed through it. His reasons for the character going evil are a clarity that Batman is an uber dick using everyone he knows as pawns. Not to mention to suddenly speak a language even when she doesn't even know how to speak proper English yet. But it gets better.. now suddenly for someone who didn't talk much she talks a lot. I mean A LOT. Like a Bond villain. She's so busy talking that Robin defeats her EVIL plan. And I'm stopping right there before more memories return.

....................

But DC could have corrected it. They had editors like Pete Tomasi on duty to correct this grievous errors. No, Tomasi let the horrific writing remain. One notch upon many more indiscretions of a character he clearly has no interest for. If that's the case then why does DC even allow this? What course of action from Cassandra's fanbase was going to happen? For them to honestly accept this bullshit?

So they continue this folly of a villain that obviously the character's fanbase loathes. But no they promise BIG PLANS for the character.* See this to every time a fan asks about the character. The answer has become so repetitive.. someone should smack any more DC employee for even saying that after someone asks about the character again. But I digress after less than a year of EVIL Cass we get an answer.

- Leading us into the mess of Titans East, a story so bad. Geoff Johns and Tony Daniels decided to flee the scene before their names could fully attached to this atrocity. So Johns leaves the book. So who gets to have writing chores to finish the job? Why Adam Beechen of course!! What then follows pretty much is to be expected.. Beechen beechens (thus starting his legend of screwing things up royally earning the comic book defitinion of blunging being now called a Beechen.) the story. But the character is cleared of any wrong doing and is good again right? RIGHT?!

No... in fact that very week Cassandra Cain appears in the other book Beechen writes, Robin, and appears still evil. So this story was before Titans East you say? More on that answer later.

- So it was at this point DC fixed things for the best. Chuck Dixon used the character in Batman & the Outsiders and was doing a commendable job. Then those who hated the character at DC decided to bungle things again. They got into a fight with Dixon over Batman R.I.P. and the changes that entailed resulting him burning his bridges at DC.

But word was announced that Cass would be getting a mini later that year. So all hope wasn't lost right?

- They give the mini to Beechen. At this point many Cassandra Cain fans begin to yell at the heavens at the sheer stupidity of DC and the lack of hatred they have for the character. Because that's the honest answer that clearly was made.. certain people at DC don't like the character. Pete Tomasi continued his hatred of the character by ignoring her completely in his Outsiders (Cass who?) and Nightwing (all the family my ass!!) runs.

- Of course the mini bombed (due to Beechen using it to clear up all his plot holes from Robin) and the true sinister plan stood revealed why DC did this, they wanted Barbara Gordon back as Batgirl. Thankfully, rational heads at the time prevailed. But Cassandra's career as Batgirl was done because of the numerous follies of DC themselves.

- But the tale doesn't end there. No... why should it? The moment actual fans of the character begin to write her again, those at DC who hate the character have to silence this. After all, they're bringing back their precious Barbara Gordon Batgirl. No need to remind fans of any Batgirl other than THEIR's. So they forced Scott Snyder to remove Cassandra from Batman #1. And again we're back to BIG PLANS for the character.

Hal Jordan? Mary Marvel? Connor Hawke? Ollie Queen? Peter Parker? Hank Pym? Ptf that's nothing to what befell Cassandra Cain. The true example of worst character assassination EVER!!

[GHERU]

It is if it goes against everything he used to stand for (and I hope will again).

he was glad the Avengers stopped him
he apologized for his actions
he came to his senses

G-d forbid your fictional hero have an off day

[Amoebas]

he was glad the Avengers stopped him
he apologized for his actions
he came to his senses

G-d forbid your fictional hero have an off day

Darn tooting!

[GHERU]

Darn tooting!

[Miracloman]

he was glad the Avengers stopped him
he apologized for his actions
he came to his senses

G-d forbid your fictional hero have an off day

The Avengers had a bad day(the worst of them) and look what happened.

[draco x]

Okay I've been quiet enough on the subject. But I have to put the greatest character assassination of them all, the one everyone knew I put in here the moment this thread was created...

Cassandra Cain.

Oh let me count the ways DC has screwed over this character.

- They canceled her ongoing not because of bad sales. Nope, the book was higher than a lot of DC books that survived onto OYL. No she was canceled the book for two reasons. #1 They used the excuse that the Batman Family of books couldn't have more than one Bat related female. Funny how that doesn't seem to be an excuse with two red-headed female Bat-characters running around now isn't it?

The other being they wanted to increase the sales of Robin which was festering behind that book and needed something to increase life back into the book. So OYL and having Cassandra on Tim's book seemed simple enough science.

.......

- The heel turn. Okay forget simplicity. DC bungled this one. The Batgirl writer gave whomever was going to handle the character a simple enough cause to be "evil", to make sure the tragedy of Bludhaven would never happen again. To kill those who deserved death.

What does do? It gives the job to a writer, Adam Beechen, who officially admitted he never read the Batgirl ongoing and breezed through it. His reasons for the character going evil are a clarity that Batman is an uber dick using everyone he knows as pawns. Not to mention to suddenly speak a language even when she doesn't even know how to speak proper English yet. But it gets better.. now suddenly for someone who didn't talk much she talks a lot. I mean A LOT. Like a Bond villain. She's so busy talking that Robin defeats her EVIL plan. And I'm stopping right there before more memories return.

....................

But DC could have corrected it. They had editors like Pete Tomasi on duty to correct this grievous errors. No, Tomasi let the horrific writing remain. One notch upon many more indiscretions of a character he clearly has no interest for. If that's the case then why does DC even allow this? What course of action from Cassandra's fanbase was going to happen? For them to honestly accept this bullshit?

So they continue this folly of a villain that obviously the character's fanbase loathes. But no they promise BIG PLANS for the character.* See this to every time a fan asks about the character. The answer has become so repetitive.. someone should smack any more DC employee for even saying that after someone asks about the character again. But I digress after less than a year of EVIL Cass we get an answer.

- Leading us into the mess of Titans East, a story so bad. Geoff Johns and Tony Daniels decided to flee the scene before their names could fully attached to this atrocity. So Johns leaves the book. So who gets to have writing chores to finish the job? Why Adam Beechen of course!! What then follows pretty much is to be expected.. Beechen beechens (thus starting his legend of screwing things up royally earning the comic book defitinion of blunging being now called a Beechen.) the story. But the character is cleared of any wrong doing and is good again right? RIGHT?!

No... in fact that very week Cassandra Cain appears in the other book Beechen writes, Robin, and appears still evil. So this story was before Titans East you say? More on that answer later.

- So it was at this point DC fixed things for the best. Chuck Dixon used the character in Batman & the Outsiders and was doing a commendable job. Then those who hated the character at DC decided to bungle things again. They got into a fight with Dixon over Batman R.I.P. and the changes that entailed resulting him burning his bridges at DC.

But word was announced that Cass would be getting a mini later that year. So all hope wasn't lost right?

- They give the mini to Beechen. At this point many Cassandra Cain fans begin to yell at the heavens at the sheer stupidity of DC and the lack of hatred they have for the character. Because that's the honest answer that clearly was made.. certain people at DC don't like the character. Pete Tomasi continued his hatred of the character by ignoring her completely in his Outsiders (Cass who?) and Nightwing (all the family my ass!!) runs.

- Of course the mini bombed (due to Beechen using it to clear up all his plot holes from Robin) and the true sinister plan stood revealed why DC did this, they wanted Barbara Gordon back as Batgirl. Thankfully, rational heads at the time prevailed. But Cassandra's career as Batgirl was done because of the numerous follies of DC themselves.

- But the tale doesn't end there. No... why should it? The moment actual fans of the character begin to write her again, those at DC who hate the character have to silence this. After all, they're bringing back their precious Barbara Gordon Batgirl. No need to remind fans of any Batgirl other than THEIR's. So they forced Scott Snyder to remove Cassandra from Batman #1. And again we're back to BIG PLANS for the character.

Hal Jordan? Mary Marvel? Connor Hawke? Ollie Queen? Peter Parker? Hank Pym? Ptf that's nothing to what befell Cassandra Cain. The true example of worst character assassination EVER!!

Agreed as most of it had Didio written all over it. I theorize Didio feeds off the hate the fans have for him.

[Zechs]

Agreed as most of it had Didio written all over it. I theorize Didio feeds off the hate the fans have for him.

He does Herald who he has a special place in his heart for.

[GLX]

He does Herald who he has a special place in his heart for.

So, Didio hate fucks Herald?

[Zechs]

So, Didio hate fucks Herald?

Well technically Harold Whiner yes.

[draco x]

Well technically Harold Whiner yes.

Oh you're talking about that character from Didio's crappy Outsiders run? He and Veritas were so pointless in that run-even more than Freight Train

[Stephen Day]

Oh you're talking about that character from Didio's crappy Outsiders run? He and Veritas were so pointless in that run-even more than Freight Train

Actually that character was based on Harold in this forum, who apparently used to be quite the pest on DC's official message boards.

[The Shadow]

I think Johns's retcon of Parallax is one of the shittiest in modern comics.

I grew up reading Hal as the main GL, and I never really did start liking Kyle. So, I'm not a Kyle fanboy, or a guy who hated Hal. But I'll tell you what. Hal's descent into evil was one of the most emotionally genuine moments in comics. Not the part where he flips out and murders the rest of the Corps; the part where he sees the destruction of Coast City combined with the Guardians' refusal to do shit about it; the part where, after all these years of being the tip of the spear, and living for the protection of others, Hal snaps. All that fuckin' anguish...in a world composed of four colors, that was real pain and frustration and anger.

Additionally, it was an object lesson to younger heroes who came up after the old guard heroes: no matter how pure and good you are, this is a power that can always corrupt you. No matter how experienced or how great your control is, there will always be those moments when you crack.

And for all those years he was "dead", it meant something to the other characters. They weren't sitting around twiddling their thumbs waiting for him to come back to life. When they spoke of him, you got the sense they were speaking in hushed tones. Like they were thinking, "there but for the grace of God..." You got the sense that every time they thought about him, they reminded themselves what happened and how he feel. And it caused them to stand perhaps a little straighter.

It changed heroes who haven't changed in decades (except for when they goddamn get retconed or rebooted).

Let Hal die. Let him redeem himself in death, perhaps. But don't...DON'T explain it all away as a yellow space bug. All that shit he went through, it's not genuine anymore. He's not subject to human flaws and faults, because it was a space bug just waiting for a vulnerable moment.

Nicely said.

[Chesscub]

Superhero with a bar could have been awesome in another context.

Awesome series.

[draco x]

Actually that character was based on Harold in this forum, who apparently used to be quite the pest on DC's official message boards.

Yeah, I was aware of that earlier on. Which is why I say Didio( And Quesada as well) get a kick out of pissing off the fans. I could go into a rant on how bad Didio's run on the Outsiders were before it got cancelled but I will save that for another thread. The worst part of that run is what they did to Geo-Force by making him into the 90's Hal Jordan and Tony Stark from Civil War.

[draco x]

Nicely said.

To each his own, I guess.