The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

[achilles]

Also "the industry" as a generalization aren't the only ones obsessed with the past--the truth is comics readers are the ones most firmly stuck, even many of the ones that protest otherwise, once a change is made to a property or even continuity they are familiar with. Almost everyone here reads mainly comic books featuring characters created decades before they were born, those comics are the past. By definition they can't be anything but at some point along a repeating cycle of events.

You make a post about an excellent truly independent or small press comic and you get virtually no responses every time.

You make a post about "which Avenger would you like to see punch which X-Man?" and people crawl out of the wood-work.

Too true. I've done this many times on other boards, only to hear crickets while some X-piece of crap or the latest Geoff Johns wank-fest gets a fifty page response.

[SilverPhoenix]

Neither one is going to bring in any new fans.

You are most likely right about that and that's what fucking sucks about this situation. Still, there's got to be some hope that something good can come from this, otherwise this is going to be a crappy summer for those of us who have to talk about these books in one way or another.

[Victorian Squid]

You are most likely right about that and that's what fucking sucks about this situation. Still, there's got to be some hope that something good can come from this, otherwise this is going to be a crappy summer for those of us who have to talk about these books in one way or another.

It's become frustrating in a manner somewhat analogous to the political system: Marvel & DC are marketed to people as their only options the same way the same R or D candidates are, and anyone buying or voting outside of that forced dichotomy is seen as being on the fringe. Many people say they are sick of the same old choices, but they nearly always buy and vote for the same thing when the time comes anyway.

Superheroes almost exclusively dominating the medium and also the impression people have of the medium is the worst thing that ever happened to comics, the more people see other options the wider the field of comics readers could grow again.

[David Bird]

One thing Moore got right in the interview was that this is about merchandising. Comic companies make most their revenue through comics related merchandising, rather than the sale of comics themselves. From that perspective, Watchmen is hugely under utilized (or whateveer the correct word is) and I suspect the movie is behind all this. It tanked, certainly, but it also saw the release of a lot of Watchmen related merchandising--at least a lot compared to what had gone on before. By developing the characters back stories, they are developing avenues through which to market them.

[Greg]

Also "the industry" as a generalization aren't the only ones obsessed with the past--the truth is comics readers are the ones most firmly stuck, even many of the ones that protest otherwise, once a change is made to a property or even continuity they are familiar with. Almost everyone here reads mainly comic books featuring characters created decades before they were born, those comics are the past. By definition they can't be anything but at some point along a repeating cycle of events.

You make a post about an excellent truly independent or small press comic and you get virtually no responses every time.

You make a post about "which Avenger would you like to see punch which X-Man?" and people crawl out of the wood-work.

Excellent post. Agreed and seconded.

[BubbaKanoosh]

Also "the industry" as a generalization aren't the only ones obsessed with the past--the truth is comics readers are the ones most firmly stuck, even many of the ones that protest otherwise, once a change is made to a property or even continuity they are familiar with. Almost everyone here reads mainly comic books featuring characters created decades before they were born, those comics are the past. By definition they can't be anything but at some point along a repeating cycle of events.

You make a post about an excellent truly independent or small press comic and you get virtually no responses every time.

You make a post about "which Avenger would you like to see punch which X-Man?" and people crawl out of the wood-work.

But I like my Arena/Elimination Chambers.

[Victorian Squid]

But I like my Arena/Elimination Chambers.

I'm not trying to dismiss your game threads, definitely the AvX idea is perfectly suited to that sort of framing. It's more like a video game than a comic book, and in many ways would probably be more enjoyable in various gaming formats than in comic book form with all the easily avoidable conflicts fleshed out and hammy dialogue and melodrama.

In one sense, that's exactly what's wrong with it as a comic book to me.

More than that though, it's about looking beyond serial characters doomed to endlessly repeat the same loops ad infinitum to find the future of the graphic medium.

[BubbaKanoosh]

I'm not trying to dismiss your game threads, definitely the AvX idea is perfectly suited to that sort of framing. It's more like a video game than a comic book, and in many ways would probably be more enjoyable in various gaming formats than in comic book form with all the easily avoidable conflicts fleshed out and hammy dialogue and melodrama.

In one sense, that's exactly what's wrong with it as a comic book to me.

More than that though, it's about looking beyond serial characters doomed to endlessly repeat the same loops ad infinitum to find the future of the graphic medium.

I agree with you completely.

My thoughts on this: the Big 2 are in a rut. Mainly because they have to cater to a shrinking reader base who hates change. They want the same characters they read 20 years ago yet bitch bout lack of progression.

[Arion]

Too true. I've done this many times on other boards, only to hear crickets while some X-piece of crap or the latest Geoff Johns wank-fest gets a fifty page response.

I know what you mean.

[David Bird]

I know what you mean.

Too true. But comic forums, just like comic shops, are dominated by fans of the Big Two.

[DMM]

I'm not trying to dismiss your game threads, definitely the AvX idea is perfectly suited to that sort of framing. It's more like a video game than a comic book, and in many ways would probably be more enjoyable in various gaming formats than in comic book form with all the easily avoidable conflicts fleshed out and hammy dialogue and melodrama.

In one sense, that's exactly what's wrong with it as a comic book to me.

More than that though, it's about looking beyond serial characters doomed to endlessly repeat the same loops ad infinitum to find the future of the graphic medium.

It's getting so bad that the loops repeat not in decades but within like a year or less. Look at Spider Man. He's fighting Sandman next and then the Lizard and the rest of the Sinister Six. Didn't he just do that in the Gaunlet? that was like a year ago.

[Arion]

Too true. But comic forums, just like comic shops, are dominated by fans of the Big Two.

It's a shame, really, because you have so many fascinating titles coming from Image or other imprints right now, and they don't get enough attention.

I guess that's why, on my blog, I usually review titles that not everyone is reading (or talking about in message boards).

[DMM]

It's a shame, really, because you have so many fascinating titles coming from Image or other imprints right now, and they don't get enough attention.

I guess that's why, on my blog, I usually review titles that not everyone is reading (or talking about in message boards).

here's a different perspective, though: I may hate repeated stories over and over again, but I also dislike "indie" stuff. I don't want to bog my collection down with a bunch of characters that may be flashes in the pan or just aren't as memorable as others. Also, there's a shit ton of shitty indie stuff that can quickly drain one's money and collection space. I'd rather have shitty spider-man comics that still hold a valuable place in my collection of spider-man comics rather than some ugly, stupid fucking indie comic that I would just as soon throw away than take up space in my home. If something "indie" is really worth picking up, I'll pick it up in trade and have it as a book on my shelf. But, as far as floppies go, I only want stuff that adds to my collection. And I try to limit my collection to certain characters or creators, and for the latter, I tend to only collect the more ongoing type of stuff in single-issue format. Anything else is better as a trade. Maybe if indie comics were like 25 cents or something, then I'd buy them instead of "the big two."

[bkthomson]

This just in. Alan Moore still hates modern comics. That is all.


Please continue.

[Arion]

here's a different perspective, though: I may hate repeated stories over and over again, but I also dislike "indie" stuff. I don't want to bog my collection down with a bunch of characters that may be flashes in the pan or just aren't as memorable as others. Also, there's a shit ton of shitty indie stuff that can quickly drain one's money and collection space. I'd rather have shitty spider-man comics that still hold a valuable place in my collection of spider-man comics rather than some ugly, stupid fucking indie comic that I would just as soon throw away than take up space in my home. If something "indie" is really worth picking up, I'll pick it up in trade and have it as a book on my shelf. But, as far as floppies go, I only want stuff that adds to my collection. And I try to limit my collection to certain characters or creators, and for the latter, I tend to only collect the more ongoing type of stuff in single-issue format. Anything else is better as a trade. Maybe if indie comics were like 25 cents or something, then I'd buy them instead of "the big two."

I'm not saying every indy title is good, there is a lot of bad stuff, and sometimes I've seen really bad art too. But that's why I always select carefully, whether it is from the big two or independent publishers. The key is that, making a selection.