The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

by **Doc Jon** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:12 pm

dairydead wrote:I just read The Onion AV Club's review of this episode and i have to mention how, at least from a first quick readthrough, they seem to absolutely detest that Rick killed Shane. I just don't understand what people expect him to have done.

Neither do I. Shane wouldn't have had it any other way. He flat out wanted to fight with Rick on basically every decision and questioned his leadership over and over. And when he didn't get his way, he either bitched endlessly or went off and did what he wanted anyway, despite it being against the group or Rick's decision.

In that world, Rick should have probably killed him a while ago.

by **Doc Jon** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:22 pm

holtom2000 wrote:Amazing. I realize the helicopter is huge, but that's not for a while in the comics, correct?
Now the long wait. Dang!
BYT did shane die in the comics the same way?
I'm tempted to get this in trade, but I really would rather not get ahead of where they are on TV, if that makes sense.

I think you would be disappointed. The show handled their relationship way better than the comic did.

by **achilles** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:32 pm

Interesting how Rick just assumes leadership, and dares anyone to do anything about it. It'd be interesting if it deviated from the comics and someone just put a bullet in his head when he's alone some day.

It also would have been funny if after he gave his big speech, the group had pointed their guns at him and told him to get to walking...

And, it seems that Dale was wrong. Shane wasn't made for that world, Rick was. Shane had his chances to off Rick, but blew them by being full on nuts. Rick OTOH took his chance to get rid of his hated rival. Wonder what Dale would have thought about that.

by **ReturnoftheMack** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:37 pm

eltopo wrote:I really don't see how Rick's big secret is that big of a deal. I mean if you die you die so what if you come back?

I agree. Who gives a shit?

I think it was just the last open Darabont thread and they found a quick and painless way to end it.

by **Doc Jon** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:53 pm

The President wrote:
I agree. Who gives a shit?

I think it was just the last open Darabont thread and they found a quick and painless way to end it.

Really? YOu wouldn't think that being actively infected with a zombie virus would be a big deal?

You're looking at it from a perspective of someone who has info in front of them, from the comics and such where the rules have been established for readers. These people have been going through this for like 2 months, and now they find out they are all infected.

What does that mean?

Does that mean if they get sick enough that the zombie shit will take over, kind of like an immune deficiency?
Or does it just get stronger and eventually you turn with no prior insult or sickness?

I don't know about you, but I'd have a reaction.

by **ReturnoftheMack** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:06 am

Doc Jon wrote:
Really? YOu wouldn't think that being actively infected with a zombie virus would be a big deal?

You're looking at it from a perspective of someone who has info in front of them, from the comics and such where the rules have been established for readers. These people have been going through this for like 2 months, and now they find out they are all infected.

What does that mean?

Does that mean if they get sick enough that the zombie shit will take over, kind of like an immune deficiency?
Or does it just get stronger and eventually you turn with no prior insult or sickness?

I don't know about you, but I'd have a reaction.

All they think is that now if people die they become zombies. So what changed? Nothing.

I also don't understand why you feel the need to defend Lori. It's like you are missing Rob. :smt102

by **Doc Jon** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:35 am

The President wrote:
All they think is that now if people die they become zombies. So what changed? Nothing.

I also don't understand why you feel the need to defend Lori. It's like you are missing Rob.

You don't know that. All they know is that they are all infected. When you hear "infected", what exactly springs to mind? Now, they know that death definitely brings it about, but they don't know anything else.

And as far as defending Lori, it's not even that I like her, I'm not sure that people are meant to. But the overreaction in these threads is a little silly. People react to every line and every look with a weird fervor. ANd so far, other than the car incident, I don't see anyone being able to back up their hate. Except for she's a "crazy bitch" and all that. But aren't they all?

by **Amoebas** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:42 am

Doc Jon wrote:
Really? YOu wouldn't think that being actively infected with a zombie virus would be a big deal?

You're looking at it from a perspective of someone who has info in front of them, from the comics and such where the rules have been established for readers. These people have been going through this for like 2 months, and now they find out they are all infected.

What does that mean?

Does that mean if they get sick enough that the zombie shit will take over, kind of like an immune deficiency?
Or does it just get stronger and eventually you turn with no prior insult or sickness?

I don't know about you, but I'd have a reaction.

It's only the writers that have kept any of these people from ever seeing someone die without being bitten or serious head injury.

T-dog had his wrist slashed (severely from the looks of it) but the writers didn't kill him. Carl was shot but the writers didn't kill him. That girl sliced her wrist on purpose but the writers didn't kill her. Daryl was pierced through the gut, but the writers didn't kill him. That's a lot of near misses where this so-called 'secret' would have been revealed on it's own if the writers hadn't intervened.

From the very start, it's asinine to think that hospitals wouldn't have reported the recent DOA's getting up. Heck, the hospital Rick was originally in had hundreds of bodies laid out in an orderly fashion in the the parking lot. The fact that each body was wrapped individually means that someone took the time to do it and that hospitals were still being run in the midst of it. And nobody ever died from a natural cause during this time? No survivor ever had a heart attack or suffered a life ending injury in any of the kajillion car crashes that would have happened?

In this world, for these people not to have figured out this 'world's worst secret' on their own is what's shocking - not that Rick revealed it too them.

by **Doc Jon** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:44 am

Amoebas wrote:It's only the writers that have kept any of these people from ever seeing someone die without being bitten or serious head injury.

T-dog had his wrist slashed (severely from the looks of it) but the writers didn't kill him. Carl was shot but the writers didn't kill him. That girl sliced her wrist on purpose but the writers didn't kill her. Daryl was pierced through the gut, but the writers didn't kill him. That's a lot of near misses where this so-called 'secret' would have been revealed on it's own if the writers hadn't intervened.

From the very start, it's asinine to think that hospitals wouldn't have reported the recent DOA's getting up. Heck, the hospital Rick was originally in had hundreds of bodies laid out in an orderly fashion in the the parking lot. The fact that each body was wrapped individually means that someone took the time to do it and that hospitals were still being run in the midst of it. And nobody ever died from a natural cause during this time? No survivor ever had a heart attack or suffered a life ending injury in any of the kajillion car crashes that would have happened?

In this world, for these people not to have figured out this 'world's worst secret' on their own is what's shocking - not that Rick revealed it too them.

I dunno, that's convenient from someone looking at from the outside.

Read World War Z. I think it does a great job of showing the plausibility of it and how people didn't know shit. Rumors are rampant and no one really knows what's going on.

by **ReturnoftheMack** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:45 am

Wanting to let Carl die is inexcusable. It's not even a "let's all kill ourselves so we don't live in this world." It's "let's kill the boy, we'll keep going." And if she felt that way, why isn't she having an abortion? I'm sure Hershel could do it.

You mentioned the Carl thing so ok.

Then there was trying to convince Rick to kill Shane. We were meant to hate her there. She was the devil on his shoulder. Add to that that she gets pissed at Rick for doing it and you have your reason for people hating her.

Let's not forget "fucking your husband's best friend one week after the zombie apocalypse."

by **Doc Jon** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:14 am

The President wrote:Wanting to let Carl die is inexcusable. It's not even a "let's all kill ourselves so we don't live in this world." It's "let's kill the boy, we'll keep going." And if she felt that way, why isn't she having an abortion? I'm sure Hershel could do it.

You mentioned the Carl thing so ok.

Then there was trying to convince Rick to kill Shane. We were meant to hate her there. She was the devil on his shoulder. Add to that that she gets pissed at Rick for doing it and you have your reason for people hating her.

Let's not forget "fucking your husband's best friend one week after the zombie apocalypse."

She didn't say "let's kill Carl", she was going to refuse surgery. You know that people actually do that every day, right? I've known any number of people that have refused surgery for a loved one. Sometimes it's because the chances of survival weren't good anyway, and this wasn't during a zombie apocalypse.

And she made her choice with the abortion. She chose to have the baby.

And setting the 2 of them at odds is part of the reaction she has to Rick actually killing Shane. Let's not dismiss the fact that Shane tried to rape her. Oh and that he kept telling her that she was his and that Rick couldn't protect them. And Rick wasn't getting that. YOu don't think that her telling him that didn't help wake up Rick to what was going on? You really think that Shane would have let it go? Because there is no indication of that.

Shane wanted to be the alpha, and that meant taking out Rick. It was going to happen sooner or later.

As far as the affair, Lori and Rick (on the show) had been having major problems. She wasn't sure she still loved him. And Shane knew about it and knew she needed comforting and took advantage of it. SHe said it herself that she felt dead and just wanted to be comforted. Even Rick understood that.

The only one who didn't get it was Shane. And apparently comic book fans. :-D

by **ReturnoftheMack** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:46 am

Doc Jon wrote:
She didn't say "let's kill Carl", she was going to refuse surgery. You know that people actually do that every day, right? I've known any number of people that have refused surgery for a loved one. Sometimes it's because the chances of survival weren't good anyway, and this wasn't during a zombie apocalypse.

That is like comparing apples to oranges. She wasn't declining surgery because her son would feel pain or because he was in a coma and he was going to die anyway. It is not a valid comparison.

And she made her choice with the abortion. She chose to have the baby.

And you don't see the hypocrisy with the Carl decision at all? She was irresponsible enough to even get pregnant in the first place, but the zombie apocalypse is no place for an 8 year old. For a baby? It works. :roll:

And setting the 2 of them at odds is part of the reaction she has to Rick actually killing Shane. Let's not dismiss the fact that Shane tried to rape her. Oh and that he kept telling her that she was his and that Rick couldn't protect them. And Rick wasn't getting that. YOu don't think that her telling him that didn't help wake up Rick to what was going on? You really think that Shane would have let it go? Because there is no indication of that.

I'm ok with her telling Rick to kill Shane if she was consistent. But she's not. One day she's nice to Shane, one day she's not. She is very inconsistent. And honestly if it wasn't for her waffling, Rick and Shane maybe could have worked things out.

Shane wanted to be the alpha, and that meant taking out Rick. It was going to happen sooner or later.

So let's kill him!

As far as the affair, Lori and Rick (on the show) had been having major problems. She wasn't sure she still loved him. And Shane knew about it and knew she needed comforting and took advantage of it. SHe said it herself that she felt dead and just wanted to be comforted. Even Rick understood that.

Yeah ok. I don't even know where to start with this. Oh yeah, how about: DON'T LEAVE YOUR SON ALONE IN A CAR IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT DURING A ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE SO YOU CAN GET BANGED DOGGIE STYLE BY YOUR HUSBAND'S BEST FRIEND!!! :lol:

The only one who didn't get it was Shane. And apparently comic book fans.

Meh.

by **Doc Jon** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:04 am

It really baffles me that people think Rick and Shane could have worked things out. Absolutely baffles me.

Lori had it right. Shane was using her and Carl as an excuse. If they weren't around, Shane would have found something else, because he wanted to.

If it wasn't for Rick, he probably would have killed anyone on the farm that opposed him, including Hershel and Dale. Shane had issues, period.

by **Doc Jon** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:07 am

And as far as the baby and Carl, it's called struggling with a decision. In both cases, it was her decision, and she chose for them to live. Just because she struggled with it doesn't make it inconsistent. Not wanting your child to grow up in a world of the walking dead isn't exactly wrong. Just bringing it up and talking about it with your husband isn't wrong. She didn't endanger his life and chose to have the surgery.

by **ReturnoftheMack** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:18 am

Doc Jon wrote:It really baffles me that people think Rick and Shane could have worked things out. Absolutely baffles me.

Lori had it right. Shane was using her and Carl as an excuse. If they weren't around, Shane would have found something else, because he wanted to.

If it wasn't for Rick, he probably would have killed anyone on the farm that opposed him, including Hershel and Dale. Shane had issues, period.

I'm not sure why you think that. Shane was a normal guy before. His only motivation was Lori and to a lesser extent Carl. There was no other evidence that Shan "had issues." Without Lori, Shane would not have been crazy IMO.