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by **Zenguru** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:23 am

HNutz wrote:
Yeah, but Osborn's been a bigger threat to the MU these past few years. Plus? They're both scientists... failed politicians... have had bad hair days for years...

Norman's certainly the most annoying threat to the MU.

by **Arion** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:14 pm

draco x wrote:
I hear ya. Ever since Marvel decided to give Norman A-List status in the Marvel-verse, he has constantly bitten off more than he could chew as he has suffered several losses when he took on other major Marvel characters such as the FF, the X-Men, the Avengers, the Young Avengers, Dr. Doom, etc. Norman's only wins have been mostly against street level characters so I think he should return to the spider-books as he is out of his league against the rest of the Marvel characters.

Against Young Avengers?

by **draco x** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:39 pm

Arion wrote:
Against Young Avengers?

Yup, Norman and company had their Scooby-Doo villain moment against the Young Avengers back during Dark Reign which is almost as embarassing as Franklin Richards shooting Norman in the arm.

by **Johnny Smith** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:12 pm

Marius665 wrote:Osborn should have slowly came back. Raising to power again in the public eye and putting his Dark Avengers together. But with this downfall again I agree with the OP I would have not supported the coma situation, I would have let him get away.
Then, I'd have Norman and the few people he actually trust to go after all the villains who have constantly back stabbed him!

Don't worry about the coma, his Goblin healing power will kick in
:-D

by **draco x** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:35 pm

Johnny Smith wrote:
Don't worry about the coma, his Goblin healing power will kick in

Of course Norman will be back. The question is will his return have a good storyline the next time around though?

by **draco x** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:11 pm

I just found out that the Dark Avengers will be returning on the leadership of Luke Cage in the Thunderbolts book as they are renaming the book under the Dark Avengers title starting with issue #175. Really, Marvel, do we need anymore Avengers books? Don't we already have Avengers, New Avengers, Secret Avengers, Avengers Academy and Avengers Assemble right now so what exactly is the point of renaming the Thunderbolts title for a defunct group of evil Avengers that served a limited purpose? Another clear idea that the House Of Ideas is obviously out of good ideas currently.

by **fieldy snuts** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:25 pm

If the whole purpose of The return of the Dark Avengers was to give Parkers book a rub from association with a Bendis concept then I'm all for it. The book deserves to sell better and this is the best way to hot shot new readers into it.

That said, other than the spider guy, Skaar and Trickshot I'm not sure why any of the others are suited to be TBolts. Dark Scarlet Witch is a crazy poisoner, Ragnarok is the one plot device from Civil War that never dies despite being the ultimate betrayal from Stark....and I think that's all being carried over from the previews I've seen.

Gorgon and Superia sure as hell shouldn't make the team either. Am I missing anyone?

by **draco x** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:45 pm

fieldy snuts wrote:If the whole purpose of The return of the Dark Avengers was to give Parkers book a rub from association with a Bendis concept then I'm all for it. The book deserves to sell better and this is the best way to hot shot new readers into it.

That said, other than the spider guy, Skaar and Trickshot I'm not sure why any of the others are suited to be TBolts. Dark Scarlet Witch is a crazy poisoner, Ragnarok is the one plot device from Civil War that never dies despite being the ultimate betrayal from Stark....and I think that's all being carried over from the previews I've seen.

Gorgon and Superia sure as hell shouldn't make the team either. Am I missing anyone?

So renaming a long-standing book in favor of another Avengers book( Which we already have several of currently) is a better idea? Is Marvel somehow trying to make the Avengers franchise as bloated as the X Men books now? What's next I wonder? Fantastic Avengers, X-Avengers, Future Foundation Avengers, Avenger Force, Avenger Factor, Avenger Mutants, Imperial Avengers, Avengers Corps? If the Dark Avengers want to star in the Thunderbolts books that's fine but don't fricking rename the book for them as this has fail written all over it.

by **Miracloman** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:49 pm

draco x wrote:
So renaming a long-standing book in favor of another Avengers book( Which we already have several of currently) is a better idea? Is Marvel somehow trying to make the Avengers franchise as bloated as the X Men books now? What's next I wonder? Fantastic Avengers, X-Avengers, Future Foundation Avengers, Avenger Force, Avenger Factor, Avenger Mutants, Imperial Avengers, Avengers Corps? If the Dark Avengers want to star in the Thunderbolts books that's fine but don't fricking rename the book for them as this has fail written all over it.

What do you mean by "trying"?

by **fieldy snuts** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:02 pm

draco x wrote:
So renaming a long-standing book in favor of another Avengers book( Which we already have several of currently) is a better idea? Is Marvel somehow trying to make the Avengers franchise as bloated as the X Men books now? What's next I wonder? Fantastic Avengers, X-Avengers, Future Foundation Avengers, Avenger Force, Avenger Factor, Avenger Mutants, Imperial Avengers, Avengers Corps? If the Dark Avengers want to star in the Thunderbolts books that's fine but don't fricking rename the book for them as this has fail written all over it.

Because TBolts was burning up the sales charts? This was a lifeline. And it's using the name of a successful recent Avengers title.

As a fan of Parker's book this is a name change that can only mean good things. Besides with the name change it'll only bring more attention to an already awesome book that Parker, Walker and Shalvey are doing (same crative team is also a plus).

by **draco x** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:09 pm

Miracloman wrote:
What do you mean by "trying"?

LMFAO! I stand corrected but you do see the point I am making. It's bad enough that the X and Bat books are doing it but the Avengers it's getting tiring very quickly.

by **draco x** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:11 pm

fieldy snuts wrote:
Because TBolts was burning up the sales charts? This was a lifeline. And it's using the name of a successful recent Avengers title.

As a fan of Parker's book this is a name change that can only mean good things. Besides with the name change it'll only bring more attention to an already awesome book that Parker, Walker and Shalvey are doing (same crative team is also a plus).

I think you're missing the point, bro. We already have enough Avengers books already just like we have enough Bat books and X-Men books. Enough is enough now. I would rather they have cancelled the Thunderbolts book rather than change it to this. The Dark Avengers as a title had their run and served their purpose as far as I am concerned.

by **fieldy snuts** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:28 pm

draco x wrote:
I think you're missing the point, bro. We already have enough Avengers books already just like we have enough Bat books and X-Men books. Enough is enough now. I would rather they have cancelled the Thunderbolts book rather than change it to this. The Dark Avengers as a title had their run and served their purpose as far as I am concerned.

If it sells why shouldn't Marvel's marketing department capitalize on it? And unlike the 3 Bendis books, Gage's, Remenders this is a villain book starring villains. It has a unique feature that helps it stand out. And You'd rather not have the book at all rather than have it changed to Dark Avengers? :smt011

I hope Marvel attaches Kingley's head to a Green Goblin robot body while Norman is out of the picture and make him the new Green Goblin

by **draco x** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:40 pm

fieldy snuts wrote:
If it sells why shouldn't Marvel's marketing department capitalize on it? And unlike the 3 Bendis books, Gage's, Remenders this is a villain book starring villains. It has a unique feature that helps it stand out. And You'd rather not have the book at all rather than have it changed to Dark Avengers?

I hope Marvel attaches Kingley's head to a Green Goblin robot body while Norman is out of the picture and make him the new Green Goblin

That's if it sells first of all theoretically. Plus the whole capilization of the franchise can have a reverse effect as people will probably get tired of too many Avengers books being thrown down their throats all at once. Do you remember the debacle in the 90's by chance and how constant overexposure ruined several characters and franchises? This approach is showing that Marvel and DC have learned nothing from the 90's.
As for the last statement, all I will say is god no! I think Kingsley should stay as the Hobgoblin and Osborn should go back to being the Green Goblin and have the showdown the fans have been asking for for years. Too bad Quesada's blatant man crush on Norman and his hatred of the Hobgoblin will prevent that from happening most likely.

by **fieldy snuts** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:17 pm

This is not the speculator boom though. This is an entirely different market from the 90's with totally different trends. When Hulk became Herc it got a boost, Black Panther did too at the start too and ditto when Daken jacked Wolverines book.

It's the quality that will determine the success in the long run and based on Parker's 20 or so past issues it is a consistently good book. So all this fear about franchise association is pointless, especially with Bendis leaving the franchise soon leaving it open for someone else to take the crown.