The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

by **draco x** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:56 pm

fieldy snuts wrote:
Hell no. Anti-hero Ares was one of the best things Bendis did.

Didn't have as much a problem with the anti-hero angle but him being a lapdog for mere mortals was just embarrassing. But like I said, I would love to see Ares get payback on Sentry for ripping him in half.

by **The Shadow** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:58 pm

Miracloman wrote:
Actually he should return to the grave from whence the Clone Saga should've never dragged him out.

THISSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :smt026

by **draco x** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:55 pm

The Shadow wrote:THISSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Agreed. The only stories I ever like with Norman post-Clone saga was Goblins At The Gate, Death In The Family and Dark Reign. I hated how they made Norman the go-to guy for almost everything wrong in Spiderman's life and then tried to rank him with Doom, Loki and the other A-List villains at Marvel.

by **draco x** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:14 pm

Anyways, in continuing what I was saying about the Dark Avengers escaping and going underground, I was thinking that it would have been interesting if Norman and the group relocated to Symkaria. Symkaria from what I understand is a country that is run by criminals for criminals and I could see the gangs needing the Dark Avengers for protection. Also, they could work with the Masters Of Evil and that LMD of Nick Fury aka Max Fury could take control of HAMMER under Norman's watch.
With the backing of the Masters Of Evil, Norman could then get revenge of Viper, Hydra and AIM for betraying him and would lead to a civil war within the super-villain community. While all of that is going on, the Goblin Cult would then be drawn into this war with the Avengers jumping in to take down everyone. To me, this is better than having Norman get owned again and turning the Dark Avengers into a Thunderbolts-lite team.

by **fieldy snuts** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:34 pm

draco x wrote: Symkaria from what I understand is a country that is run by criminals for criminals

You're thinking of Madripoor.

And that plot reads like bad fanfiction.

by **The Shadow** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:58 pm

draco x wrote: ruin the character

Just curious (and this is to anyone not just draco x)... but homeone's liking (even the majpw is a character ever 'ruined'? Sure an interpretation may not be to someone's liking (or many people for that matter) but all it takes is one good story and all is forgiven.

Take over-exposed 90's Punisher who became an avenging angel in what was arguably the crappiest mini series of the 90's. All it took was one awesome story by Garth Ennis and all was right in the world again.

I don't think you can ruin a character... just knock him/her off course for a bit.

Of course people freaking about how a character was 'ruined' means writers are less likely to explore some new ideas and we're left with the wash-rinse-repeat story mode with no growth.

by **draco x** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:35 am

fieldy snuts wrote:
You're thinking of Madripoor.

And that plot reads like bad fanfiction.

Symkaria was introduced in the Secret Avengers run recently actually. It's basically the European version of Madripoor if you look at it. As for the plot, if Norman wants to have an actual organization that won't stab him in the back then the Masters Of Evil and that LMD Max Fury would be the better choice. Plus given the fact that HAMMER is a pastiche of SHIELD, who better to run it than Nick Fury's robotic clone. They want Norman to be this billy badass in Marvel( Much as I regard Norman as Lex Luthor 2.0) then this would be the way to go.

by **draco x** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:37 am

The Shadow wrote:Just curious (and this is to anyone not just draco x)... but homeone's liking (even the majpw is a character ever 'ruined'? Sure an interpretation may not be to someone's liking (or many people for that matter) but all it takes is one good story and all is forgiven.

Take over-exposed 90's Punisher who became an avenging angel in what was arguably the crappiest mini series of the 90's. All it took was one awesome story by Garth Ennis and all was right in the world again.

I don't think you can ruin a character... just knock him/her off course for a bit.

Of course people freaking about how a character was 'ruined' means writers are less likely to explore some new ideas and we're left with the wash-rinse-repeat story mode with no growth.

Fair enough. It would be interesting to see if the writers could turn around the Sentry hot mess if they were to ever bring him back.

by **Stephen Day** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:42 pm

draco x wrote:
Symkaria was introduced in the Secret Avengers run recently actually. It's basically the European version of Madripoor if you look at it. As for the plot, if Norman wants to have an actual organization that won't stab him in the back then the Masters Of Evil and that LMD Max Fury would be the better choice. Plus given the fact that HAMMER is a pastiche of SHIELD, who better to run it than Nick Fury's robotic clone. They want Norman to be this billy badass in Marvel( Much as I regard Norman as Lex Luthor 2.0) then this would be the way to go.

Symkaria existed before Secret Avengers. It's the home country of Silver Sable and the base of the Nazi hunting Wild Pack.

by **fieldy snuts** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:59 pm

Stephen Day wrote:
Symkaria existed before Secret Avengers. It's the home country of Silver Sable and the base of the Nazi hunting Wild Pack.

Yessir. IIRC she was exiled by DnA and is looknig at getting back there.

by **draco x** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:23 pm

Stephen Day wrote:
Symkaria existed before Secret Avengers. It's the home country of Silver Sable and the base of the Nazi hunting Wild Pack.

My mistake. Either way, that would be a good base for the Norman and the Dark Avengers to set up shop to keep off the radar. Or probably they could go to Madripoor and link up with Tiger Tyger if she's still around by the way.

by **draco x** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:24 pm

fieldy snuts wrote:

Yessir. IIRC she was exiled by DnA and is looknig at getting back there.

Silver Sable running into the Dark Avengers and HAMMER would make an interesting story by the way.

by **Miracloman** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:08 pm

The Shadow wrote:Just curious (and this is to anyone not just draco x)... but homeone's liking (even the majpw is a character ever 'ruined'? Sure an interpretation may not be to someone's liking (or many people for that matter) but all it takes is one good story and all is forgiven.

Take over-exposed 90's Punisher who became an avenging angel in what was arguably the crappiest mini series of the 90's. All it took was one awesome story by Garth Ennis and all was right in the world again.

I don't think you can ruin a character... just knock him/her off course for a bit.

Of course people freaking about how a character was 'ruined' means writers are less likely to explore some new ideas and we're left with the wash-rinse-repeat story mode with no growth.

Agree.Bad writing can left characters in a bad state in the eyes of readers,sometimes for a long time until a writer ingenious and/or bold enough can instill a new breath on him/her.
I personally try to avoid the adjective "ruined" when expressing dissatisfaction on how a character had been handled.

by **draco x** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:51 pm

I just read the New Avengers title where Skaar and the New Avengers owned the Dark Avengers hard which again rehashes my statement of how bad this run was. Gorgon being owned by Iron Fist and Daredevil was the worst part-I mean a mutant badass who managed to kill a god then gets his ass handed to him by a couple of street characters is humiliating to say the least. I still say that they should have allowed the entire team to escape and hide out in either Symkaria or Madripoor.

by **draco x** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:53 pm

Miracloman wrote:
Agree.Bad writing can left characters in a bad state in the eyes of readers,sometimes for a long time until a writer ingenious and/or bold enough can instill a new breath on him/her.
I personally try to avoid the adjective "ruined" when expressing dissatisfaction on how a character had been handled.

Like I said before, it will be interesting to see if they can rescue the Sentry despite how much the fans hate him.