The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

by **ElijahSnowFan** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:43 am

Yep, I'm the same as I've ever been: If significant shit is going down, like the potential for Tony Stark getting his armor cracked open and subsequently getting his ass whipped in front of God and country, then you know I'm there.

A lot of this book/concept has been spoiled already, but that doesn't mean it wasn't enjoyable to read. The art didn't hold up on every page, but I'll forgive that because there are so many characters in this issue.

I know some folks didn't like Civil War, but I did, for this reason: Both sides are right. I like it when heroes beat the hell out of supervillains, and personally, I don't think that happens as often as it should, considering that you see the firepower the Avengers bring to deal with the X-Men. Why wouldn't you bring that same firepower to Latveria, for instance?

But this storyline has been building for years...Cyclops has been a freaking douche for so long, including training every single mutant kid he runs across to be a soldier, while the Avengers have been douches for just as long for how they treat their members who clearly have problems, as Bendis has justifiably written over the years.

With this issue, some shit has to get sorted out. I see no reason, none, for Marvel to even think about a soft reboot. Too many things have been done well by Marvel for many years to discard what has gone before, and with this storyline, it'll be nice to see some payoffs and see where mutants go next.

Will they all be repowered? Is is that simple? Who knows?

*For the record, Magneto is still the baddest MF'er of them all*

by **guitarsmashley** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:44 am

after reading this issue I came to the conclusion that there are far too many Avengers.

by **Timbales** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:45 am

Yeah, I like the whole 'We've let Sentinels go after you guys for years and did nothing, but now we are concerned about something that might effect us so we'll come after you instead of trying to work together' attitude.

by **Log-Man** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:51 am

guitarsmashley wrote:after reading this issue I came to the conclusion that there are far too many Avengers.

"No more avengers."

by **Gladiator X** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:05 am

Really diggin' this so far myself.

The Avengers are fuckwads.

by **Punchy** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:08 am

Was anyone else mightily pissed off with all the little 'AR' things throughout the book? I know it's supposedly something cool for the digital readers, but I don't like it cluttering up the print copy.

by **Gladiator X** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:11 am

Punchy wrote:Was anyone else mightily pissed off with all the little 'AR' things throughout the book? I know it's supposedly something cool for the digital readers, but I don't like it cluttering up the print copy.

I was. Save that shit for the digital copies. :smt013

by **Chris** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:12 am

There has to be some sort of redemption arc in place for Cyclops either during or after this.. He has been a megadouche for years now and has been tiptoeing around the villain line for a while now, IMO. Attacking Cap seems like the last straw to me.

How do you redeem him? He's Magneto-Lite. I feel like all the good work done by Morrison and Whedon 6 or 7 years ago has been undone by Fraction, Gillen and now AvX.

by **BlueStreak** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:18 am

Holland Oats wrote:There has to be some sort of redemption arc in place for Cyclops either during or after this.. He has been a megadouche for years now and has been tiptoeing around the villain line for a while now, IMO. Attacking Cap seems like the last straw to me.

How do you redeem him? He's Magneto-Lite. I feel like all the good work done by Morrison and Whedon 6 or 7 years ago has been undone by Fraction, Gillen and now AvX.

I figure that the only way for Cyclops to come back from this is for him actually being right about the Phoenix Force or for Jean to come back and kind of snap him to his senses somehow.

by **GOSD** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:19 am

Rikk Odinson wrote:Really diggin' this so far myself.

The Avengers are fuckwads.

By trying to protect everyone from death? :smt017

The only fuckwad so far is Cyclops.

by **Grayson** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:49 am

Punchy wrote:Was anyone else mightily pissed off with all the little 'AR' things throughout the book? I know it's supposedly something cool for the digital readers, but I don't like it cluttering up the print copy.

This also pissed me off. It made the book feel less important to me. I even downloaded the app and attempted to use it. That being said, I was not impressed. I really wish that Marvel would just offer version of their books with no digital content at a lower price.

Holland Oats wrote:There has to be some sort of redemption arc in place for Cyclops either during or after this.. He has been a megadouche for years now and has been tiptoeing around the villain line for a while now, IMO. Attacking Cap seems like the last straw to me.

How do you redeem him? He's Magneto-Lite. I feel like all the good work done by Morrison and Whedon 6 or 7 years ago has been undone by Fraction, Gillen and now AvX.

I still don't really see this "mega-douchey, Magneto-Lite" version of Scott that some people keep talking about. Cyclops is the leader of his people, there are less than 200 of those people left on Earth, and now everybody who has ever had some type of problem with mutants is trying to eradicate what's left. For crying out loud there is a group of 12 year olds calling themselves the Hellfire Club, conspiring to destroy the X-Men! It's absolutely ridiculous. Where were the Avengers when Wanda wiped out the mutant population and the government surrounded Westchester with Sentinels? The Fantastic Four? Power Pack?

Suddenly, the Phoenix is coming to Earth and not only are the Avengers interested but now they are the experts on what the Phoenix wants and needs? Instead of contacting Scott peacefully and asking for his advice or input, Captain America brings the Avengers and a helicarrier full of S.H.I.E.L.D agents to Utopia (which the last time I checked was a recognized sovereign land) and demand that he turn over his own granddaughter to their custody. It's absolute hypocritical bullshit! How would Captain America have reacted if Cyclops came to the Helicarrier and demanded that he turn Wanda over to the X-Men because she is a mutant and her powers going out of control again is a mutant concern?

You mean to tell me that this was Plan A? The thought never crossed anyone's mind that maybe instead of trying to strong arm the X-Men, maybe Captain America should have went to Utopia with Tony Stark, Hank Pym, Reed Richards, Hank McCoy, and any other genius they could find to attempt to reach a consensus on what they should do about Hope or the Phoenix?

by **Marius665** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:50 am

Holland Oats wrote:There has to be some sort of redemption arc in place for Cyclops either during or after this.. He has been a megadouche for years now and has been tiptoeing around the villain line for a while now, IMO. Attacking Cap seems like the last straw to me.

How do you redeem him? He's Magneto-Lite. I feel like all the good work done by Morrison and Whedon 6 or 7 years ago has been undone by Fraction, Gillen and now AvX.

he's gotta get that piece of the Void out of his head!

by **Chris** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:51 am

BlueStreak wrote:
I figure that the only way for Cyclops to come back from this is for him actually being right about the Phoenix Force or for Jean to come back and kind of snap him to his senses somehow.

Well, I kind of figure that he is right.. because there has to be some lasting change coming out of AvX, and fixing the mutant problem seems like a pretty big deal.. but being right wouldn't really redeem him in my eyes.

I mean, the whole "ends justify the means" philosophy is one Magneto has used for decades...

by **BlueStreak** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:55 am

Holland Oats wrote:
Well, I kind of figure that he is right.. because there has to be some lasting change coming out of AvX, and fixing the mutant problem seems like a pretty big deal.. but being right wouldn't really redeem him in my eyes.

I mean, the whole "ends justify the means" philosophy is one Magneto has used for decades...

I'm sure there will be more to it than that, but I don't think that any backdown of his "militant" philosophy would have to start with that. Remember, Cyclops isn't militant by nature, it was something he adopted out of necessity to protect the few mutants that are left. Should mutantkind be repowered and he's convinced that they're not going to get ignored while others try to wipe them out again (a point he raised in the first issue), I could see him backing off the ledge.

It's a stretch though.

by **Chris** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:57 am

Sakie wrote:I still don't really see this "mega-douchey, Magneto-Lite" version of Scott that some people keep talking about. Cyclops is the leader of his people, there are less than 200 of those people left on Earth, and now everybody who has ever had some type of problem with mutants is trying to eradicate what's left. For crying out loud there is a group of 12 year olds calling themselves the Hellfire Club, conspiring to destroy the X-Men! It's absolutely ridiculous. Where were the Avengers when Wanda wiped out the mutant population and the government surrounded Westchester with Sentinels? The Fantastic Four? Power Pack?

Wolverine has the right of it. They may be an endangered species, but that's all the more reason to protect what they have, not put children at risk and make them go to war. Scott has been a major dick ever since the whole Utopia thing started.

The Avengers being dicks also doesn't have anything to do with Scott. The two can both be mega douches, and are, in this scenario.

Suddenly, the Phoenix is coming to Earth and not only are the Avengers interested but now they are the experts on what the Phoenix wants and needs? Instead of contacting Scott peacefully and asking for his advice or input, Captain America brings the Avengers and a helicarrier full of S.H.I.E.L.D agents to Utopia (which the last time I checked was a recognized sovereign land) and demand that he turn over his own granddaughter to their custody. It's absolute hypocritical bullshit! How would Captain America have reacted if Cyclops came to the Helicarrier and demanded that he turn Wanda over to the X-Men because she is a mutant and her powers going out of control again is a mutant concern?

Tell me how in the world it's a good idea for Scott to want the Phoenix to come to Earth? HE SHOULD KNOW BETTER THAN ANYONE WHY THAT IS A HORRIBLE IDEA - You're right! Instead, it's Cap and the Avengers trying to tell him how wrong it is.. that's completely backwards, and just shows how out of touch Cyke is. He's got tunnel vision, and doesn't care about the consequences of any of his actions.

Also.. the Helicarrier was cloaked. They were there for Cap's protection, which as Cyclops proved, was a smart choice. Cap did not attack Cyclops. He came to talk. Scott made the first move.