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[DonDaddyD]

Strict this one is for you.

OK, so in previous discussions about The Force a few on this forum said that the true nature of the Force was the light side, the dark side was a perversion of The Force and Anakin bought balance to it by eleminating evil i.e. supposededly killing Sidious and leaving Luke as the only real viable Jedi - contestable if you include people like Kyle Katarn and all the other force sensitives in the Expanded Universe that spawned out of the Dark Times/Empire era. (I don't believe Anakin actually ever bought balance to the force).

HOWEVER, it would seem that 36,000 years bby the Jedi were Je'daii and that The Force was about balance equal parts dark and light. Finding the balance between light and dark was the true state of The Force and and that both light and dark side (Jedi and Sith) are perversions.

I like that concept and would hope that we see a return of the Je'daii in the Legacy era. I would however propose that all levels of these 'Grey' Je'daii's are weaker than the subsequent Jedi or Sith as they do not give themselves fully to either side and therefore the do not reap the benefits of the extremitites of either side.

[Doc Jon]

I had a similar idea for characters like that years ago.

It sounds interesting.

[covalesky]

Caotic neutral bs.

In the legacy era you have Cade that already walks the line, but that brings him unbalance instead of balance.

[DonDaddyD]

The concept is brilliant.

The Jedi were once Je'daii. No one really knows how it got started, the ships that bought Force sensitives to the Tython - the oldest known Jedi planet - predates all. For all we know a real Tython could be an extinct race much like the Madelorians.

Anyway, back then there was The Force and the belief system accepted both and Light and Dark side with the goal to find the balance in the middle.

I like these Je'Daii and I like the solar system they live in. I like that they use guns with bullets and actual swords. Not too sure about the inclusion of the Infinite Empire though. It would be amazing if they included Yuzang Vong into the story as well.

But just as a fact gathering piece it does turn notions of the Force on its head. It kinda implies that the Jedi Order (and the Sith) is wrong.

[DonDaddyD]

Caotic neutral bs.

In the legacy era you have Cade that already walks the line, but that brings him unbalance instead of balance.

Does Cade's ability to dance light and dark bring him imbalance or is it his self destructive personality that brings him imbalance?

He has always been taught that the Dark side is EVIL and that he should turn from it. At the same time the Dark side is trying to seduce him from the Light whenever the Light side lack of action ultimately becomes the greater evil (in-action from saving a life from example).

If Cade was actually taught to use both sides equally I think he'd be a more rounded individual. Albeit a less powerful one.

[Doc Jon]

Caotic neutral bs.

In the legacy era you have Cade that already walks the line, but that brings him unbalance instead of balance.

But there are other instances where some kind of balance is hinted at.

FOr example, there's Luke in the Thrawn books. Obviously Luke knows that Jedi use their ability to influence minds to their advantage. So he begins to use it in combat, confusing pilots in order to gain the upper hand.

He later realizes the this gives him an uneasy feeling as if it's too far to the Dark Side, so he stops using it for that purpose. But obviously the ability itself isn't evil, it's the extent (it would seem) that it's used.

So I think the concept is interesting. Obviously, the problem with the Dark Side is that it's quicker, so people often can't or won't maintain a balance. They embrace it fully. So an order that attempts to balance the disciplines could be very cool.

[covalesky]

But to trully be in balanced there had to be no inclination for either good nor evil. How could any force user walk the path of the force without any kind of moral guidance?

[Doc Jon]

But to trully be in balanced there had to be no inclination for either good nor evil. How could any force user walk the path of the force without any kind of moral guidance?

That's assuming that the abilities themselves are inherently good or evil. Or do they exist in a spectrum?

So you can use a FOrce Push to a certain level, but use it to crush people's larynxes over and over and one might assume you're straying to the Dark Side.
Could someone neutral use Force Lightning, but maybe not on another living being?

I don't know what the "rules" would be, but it's an interesting concept. And perhaps what we find out in the end is that balance cannot be maintained or something along those lines. Maybe it's a discipline doomed to failure.

[covalesky]

That's assuming that the abilities themselves are inherently good or evil. Or do they exist in a spectrum?

So you can use a FOrce Push to a certain level, but use it to crush people's larynxes over and over and one might assume you're straying to the Dark Side.
Could someone neutral use Force Lightning, but maybe not on another living being?

I don't know what the "rules" would be, but it's an interesting concept. And perhaps what we find out in the end is that balance cannot be maintained or something along those lines. Maybe it's a discipline doomed to failure.

I agree that associating abilities with light or dark side could be changed to the intention of the user and not the poeer itself.

But i was refering to the force users themselfs and not the powers. The users intent and choosen path to power should define their light/dark inclination and not the power.

[PDH]

My understanding of the prophecy was that around the time of the Clone Wars you had however many Jedi (hundreds?) and basically just a couple of Sith because of the Rule of Two stuff. So, then Anakin comes along and effectively wipes out all of the Jedis with the exception of Yoda and Obi-Wan and a few others who escape the purge. Hence, it's now roughly even-Stevens. The Force is balanced.

As for the morality, I think it's the product of confused thinking. The idea of something being inherently good or evil is simply nonsense. There is no such thing as intrinsic value, it's an example of the mind projection fallacy.

Suppose that scientists invented a machine that could detect intrinsic value and determined that a particular turnip was the most intrinsically valuable object in the observable universe whereas your darling daughter, whom you love with all of your heart, was completely worthless. Would you then abandon your daughter for a turnip?

No. Because your daughter has value to you. She has extrinsic value and only extrinsic value can motivate us or give us reasons for action. The only way that intrinsic value could matter is if you valued intrinsic value (i.e. if it had extrinsic value). But why would you? Why should anyone give a flying fuck about intrinsic value?

The only difference between the dark side and the light side is that the Sith wear black and have evil looking eyes. If you spend your whole life practising Force Lightning but you never hurt people and always help old ladies cross the road etc. you're a good person.