The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

by **Midas** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:24 pm

Here's my April Cart. I would not have been able to afford all this, but Amazon has better than 40% discounts on both the Fantagraphics EC reprints and the Mad Archives, which allowed me to come in comfortably under $100. If it weren't for the fact that I absolutely must support anything that involves the Valiant characters (at least until I know for certain it sucks and isn't true to the originals), I could've placed my full order through Amazon for cheaper, thanks to the fact that I don't pay for shipping on Amazon and do have to pay a $6.25 fee to ship through DCBS... That's a bad sign for DCBS and the comics industry in general. Who the hell pays full cover any more?

From Amazon:
MAD ARCHIVES HC VOL 04
EC WALLY WOOD CAME THE DAWN AND OTHER STORIES HC (C: 0-1-2)
EC KURTZMAN CORPSE O/T IMJIN AND OTHER STORIES HC (C: 0-1-2)

From DCBS:
WALKING DEAD TP VOL 16 A LARGER WORLD (MR)
ESSENTIAL SPIDER-MAN TP VOL 11 *Special Discount*
HARBINGER (ONGOING) #1 PULLBOX SUAYAN CVR *Special Discount*
X-O MANOWAR (ONGOING) #2 REG KEVIC CVR

Would have liked that Invisibles Omnibus but I don't have a spare $90 (after discounts) lying around.

by **Evan Meadow** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:52 am

Here's my order:

Previews

The Massive
Dark Horse Presents
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Angel & Faith
Strain
Conan: The Daughters of Midora and Other Stories TP
Conan: Throne of Aquilonia HC
Star Wars: Blood Ties - Boba Fett is Dead
Star Wars: Knight Errant - Escape
Star Wars: Darth Vader & the Ghost Prison
Star Wars: Dawn of the Jedi - Force Storm
Star Wars: Clone Wars - Sith Hunters GN
Orchid
Resident Alien

Before Watchmen: Minutemen
Before Watchmen: Silk Spectre
Before Watchmen: Comedian
Before Watchmen: Nite Owl
Justice League
Justice League International
Earth Two
Worlds' Finest
Aquaman
Wonder Woman
Captain Atom
DC Universe Presents
Flash
Firestorm
Green Arrow
Savage Hawkman
Action Comics
Superman
Superboy
Supergirl
Batman Inc
Batman
Detective Comics
Batman: Dark Knight
Batman & Robin
Batwoman
Batwing
Batgirl
Birds of Prey
Catwoman
Nightwing
Red Hood & the Outlaws
Red Lanterns
Dial H
Justice League Dark
Animal Man
Swamp Thing
Frankenstein, Agent of SHADE
I, Vampire
Resurrection Man
Demon Knights
Deathstroke
Stormwatch
GI Combat
Grifter
Suicide Squad
Voodoo
All Star Western
Ravagers
Blue Beetle
Teen Titans
Legion Lost
Legion of Super Heroes
Smallville Season 11
Batman Beyond Unlimited
Batman: Arkham Unhinged
Night Force
Shade
DC Nation
Green Lantern Animated
Superman Family Adventures
Young Justice
Fairest
Fables
iZombie
New Deadwardians
Spaceman
Saucer Country
Unwritten

Rocketeer Adventures
Kiss
Kiss Greatest Hits Vol 1 TP
True Blood
Ghostbusters
GI Joe
Snake Eyes & Storm Shadow
Cobra
GI Joe: Real American Hero
Star Trek
ST:TNG/Dr. Who - Assimilatiion2
Transformers: More Than Meets the Eye
Transformers: Robots in Disguise
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
TMNT Micro: Splinter
Godzilla
Trio
Next Men: Aftermath
30 Days of Night
Smoke & Mirrors
Night of 1000 Wolves

Spawn
Planetoid
Creator Owned Heroes
Carbon Grey Vol 2
68: Scars
Artifacts
Dancer
Danger Club
Darkness
Epic Kill
Fatale
Grim Leaper
Hack/Slash
Haunt
Hell Yeah
Invincible
Lil Depressed Boy
Mind the Gap
Morning Glories
Near Death
No Place Like Home
Peter Panzerfaust
Pigs
Rebel Blood
Saga
Secret
Shinku
Skullkickers
Thief of Thieves
Vescell
Walking Dead
Witchblade

Ultimate Spider-Man
Ultimates
Ultimate X-Men
Spider-Men (both issues)
Marvel Zombies Destroy (both issues)
Casanova: Avaritia
Secret Service
Supercrooks
Hit-Girl

Rachel Rising
Secret History Book 20
Agent Marc Saunders
Atlas Unified
Flash Gordon: King of the Impossible GN
Idolized
Soulfire: Hope
Soulfire Primer
Dead Man's Run
Fathom: Kiani
Fathom
Bleeding Cool Magazine
Juliet
Secret Lives of Julie Newmar
Extermination
Fanboys vs Zombies
Higher Earth
Supurbia
Valen the Outcast
Rasl

Prophecy
Spider
Shadow
Army of Darkness
Lord of the Jungle
Jennifer Blood
Ninjettes
Bionic Woman
Bionic Man
Warlord of Mars
Warlord of Mars: Dejah Thoris
Dejah Thoris & the White Apes of Mars
Warriors of Mars
Green Hornet
Flash Gordon - Zeitgeist
Merciless - Rise of Ming
Voltron
Voltron: Year One
Witchblade/Red Sonja
Red Sonja
Queen Sonja
Lone Ranger
Zorro Rides Again
Courtney Crumrin
Bad Medicine
Sixth Gun
Secret History of D.B. Cooper
Wasteland
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: Century - 2009
Harbinger
X-O Manowar

by **Midas** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:22 am

So you have no qualms ordering the Before Watchmen stuff? I don't think I care about Alan Moore's feelings or anything, but it seems like such a desperate and obvious money play to me that I have no taste for them...

by ****** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:04 pm

Yeah there's no way I'm touching Before Watchmen. It's being made for all the wrong reasons.

by **Midas** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:07 pm

By the way, isn't it your job to be telling me the Previews order form for May is up?

by ****** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:23 pm

I saw it was up Friday, but I got a work related call and forgot about it. :oops:

by **Evan Meadow** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:17 am

Midas wrote:By the way, isn't it your job to be telling me the Previews order form for May is up?

I was too busy trying to convince my money not to commit suicide.

by **Evan Meadow** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:32 am

Midas wrote:So you have no qualms ordering the Before Watchmen stuff? I don't think I care about Alan Moore's feelings or anything, but it seems like such a desperate and obvious money play to me that I have no taste for them...

Nope, no qualms.

I don't think per se its a desperate money play (of course obvious) because if they were really that desperate this would have happened a lot sooner and Levitz really wouldn't have been able to stop it because people higher up then even him would have been behind it. While we can say "They didn't waste any time once Levitz was gone" they have to strike while Watchmen is still a nice sized chunk of the public consciousness to get the most sales.

And yeah, Moore's feelings aren't a big concern for me either. Cause he's going to get money from this whether he wants it or not. (And its been said he doesn't refuse any money from the comic sales. Its everything else that can make money from the projects he says "Just give it to the artists" but he'll cash the comic checks) But no one disputes DC didn't have him sign a contract that turned out not good in his favor. No one disputes DC's last attempt to soothe things over was a really stupid idea that they knew he'd never except.

But Moore has become the old man yelling "GET OFF MY LAWN!" at everyone who comes talking to him about comics and how much they suck, and has clearly bought into the idea that he's just as great as his devoted fans say/think he is. I've never bowed to the altar of Moore and I never will. I respect his writing, but a lot of it really isn't that good. Or at least not good to me.

And despite people decrying JMS's statement, its still true. You can not run around saying "Don't tell stories with characters I created." while doing the same thing with other literary/comic book characters and thinking either just because they're in the public domain and/or the creator in question is long past dead and can't tell you if they would want you to use them that way, you can do whatever you want with them and think you can get away with it and others can't.

And as for the "Well they're obviously the Charlton characters" defense and the people who say "He created new characters so it shouldn't count" in Moore's defense, you know why that still can't hold water? Because he didn't change the characters ENOUGH. Everyone knows who they were supposed to be originally and there is still HUGE parts of the characters in there that no judge could ever reasonably say "Yeah, these are completely original."

And I really want to read the stories too. :-D

But that's my take on Moore. Take the money, don't take the money. JUST STOP COMPLAINING! LOEG completely took away any defense he could have about any of this.

by **Midas** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:30 am

Yeah, but how do you really feel about this Evan? :-D

In all seriousness, that was an excellent response!

Having said that, I continue to disagree with you.

I'm with you that Moore all the time recycles old characters. I don't think that's the point. He takes old characters and puts a personal spin on them. These prequels are not the same thing. They're taking HIS spin on the characters and telling new stories about them. Yes, this happens all the time in comics, but one of the qualities that has made Watchmen so timeless is that Moore's take on those characters HAS been sacred for decades. The fact that DC has held these characters sacred also plays in to my lack of interest in the prequels. I'd rather see these creators come up with new takes on Blue Beetle and Captain Atom than Nite Owl and Dr. Manhattan.

The Watchmen was a perfectly constructed finite comic book series and perhaps the pinnacle of super hero comic book writing (and artwork, for that matter). I'd rather they left it alone. Clearly, the demand for more must be there. I hope these prequels don't try to retcon or reinterpret any of the characters or in any other way cheapen the original story the way the very existence of these prequels cheapens the original series a whole...

by **Evan Meadow** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:41 pm

Midas wrote:Yeah, but how do you really feel about this Evan? In all seriousness, that was an excellent response!

Having said that, I continue to disagree with you.

I'm with you that Moore all the time recycles old characters. I don't think that's the point. He takes old characters and puts a personal spin on them. These prequels are not the same thing. They're taking HIS spin on the characters and telling new stories about them. Yes, this happens all the time in comics, but one of the qualities that has made Watchmen so timeless is that Moore's take on those characters HAS been sacred for decades. The fact that DC has held these characters sacred also plays in to my lack of interest in the prequels. I'd rather see these creators come up with new takes on Blue Beetle and Captain Atom than Nite Owl and Dr. Manhattan.

The Watchmen was a perfectly constructed finite comic book series and perhaps the pinnacle of super hero comic book writing (and artwork, for that matter). I'd rather they left it alone. Clearly, the demand for more must be there. I hope these prequels don't try to retcon or reinterpret any of the characters or in any other way cheapen the original story the way the very existence of these prequels cheapens the original series a whole...

I may end up saying more about this later today with more thought, but right now if nothing else I think sequels would be far more detrimental then prequels.

I don't think a sequel to Watchmen should happen at all. Even though I'd love to know what happened next (which I'm sure was always Moore's plan and that if anyone's would continue it, it should be him alone and he probably was going to long ago) but doing stuff from before the main event feels ok with me.

by **Midas** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:51 pm

Evan Meadow wrote:
I may end up saying more about this later today with more thought, but right now if nothing else I think sequels would be far more detrimental then prequels.

I don't think a sequel to Watchmen should happen at all. Even though I'd love to know what happened next (which I'm sure was always Moore's plan and that if anyone's would continue it, it should be him alone and he probably was going to long ago) but doing stuff from before the main event feels ok with me.

I'd love to hear more thoughts if you have 'em because I'm enjoying the real dialog we're having on this! I'm completely with you that sequels would be way worse. I'm sure the DC brass realizes that too. But if these prequels do well, it won't be long before we find out what happens next (like how they're going to bring Rorschach back to life--you just know they'd love to do that). Before long they'll be bit players in the regular DC universe, probably trotted out to get killed in the next big line-wide event...

by ****** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:01 am

Finalized for June...

Abstract Studios
RACHEL RISING #9

Cartoon Books
RASL #15 (MR) (C: 0-0-1)

Dark Horse
BTVS SEASON 9 VOL 01 FREEFALL TP (C: 0-1-2)
BPRD HELL ON EARTH TP VOL 03 RUSSIA (C: 0-1-2)

DC Comics
SHADE #9 (OF 12)
FABLES TP VOL 17 INHERIT THE WIND (MR)
SCALPED TP VOL 09 KNUCKLE UP (MR)

Image Comics
FATALE TP VOL 01 DEATH CHASES ME (MR)
WALKING DEAD TP VOL 16 A LARGER WORLD (MR)

Marvel
CAPTAIN AMERICA #13
DAREDEVIL #14
INCOGNITO CLASSIFIED EDITION HC (MR)
JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #639
JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #640
WINTER SOLDIER #6
WINTER SOLDIER #7

Top Shelf
LOEG III CENTURY #3 2009 (MR) (C: 0-0-3)

Amazon orders...

ABSOLUTE BATMAN & ROBIN HC BATMAN REBORN
INVISIBLES OMNIBUS HC (MR)
LOCKE & KEY HC VOL 05 CLOCKWORKS

I've found a new trick on the Amazon stuff. If you place the books you're considering into your wish list, they'll start popping up on your customized Today's Deals page. It doesn't make a huge difference, usually just an extra 1-3%, but every little bit helps. I got my pre-order for American Vampire v4 in a couple of days ago for 53% off.

The only thing left from June for me is The Stand Slipcase Omnibus. I'll probably pass unless Amazon lists the pre-order at 50%. I'm skeptical of the return I would get for selling my PEHC set and the double dip would be a bit more costly than I would be comfortable with without a big discount.

by **Midas** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:33 am

That's an awesome tip! I"m gonna try it next month.

by **Evan Meadow** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:26 am

Midas wrote:
I'd love to hear more thoughts if you have 'em because I'm enjoying the real dialog we're having on this! I'm completely with you that sequels would be way worse. I'm sure the DC brass realizes that too. But if these prequels do well, it won't be long before we find out what happens next (like how they're going to bring Rorschach back to life--you just know they'd love to do that). Before long they'll be bit players in the regular DC universe, probably trotted out to get killed in the next big line-wide event...

If they did well, they'd find other characters to tell stories on. I mean its going to depend on what stories Cooke is telling in the Minutemen mini but if they don't dwell too much on them, you KNOW Hooded Justice, Dollar Bill, the one committed to the asylum and the lesbian super-hero (those names I obviously can't remember) would be the next ones to have stories told about them.

by **Midas** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:08 am

Another thing I don't like about these one-shots is that they just will not be deep or lasting stories. They never are and really couldn't possibly be given their nature. They're not "cannon" no matter what DC says so they're really just throwaway fluff pieces. I'd rather see these guys create something new and memorable than pander to nostalgia.