The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

by **draco x** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:07 pm

Zechs wrote:
Norman 2.0? Hardly, Spider Writers ironically took those characteristics of the Hobgoblin and slapped them onto Norman. But of course they're also the Lex Luthor type things as well they did with him too. It wasn't until Ellis and Bendis they actually did something with him.

Also.. that "good" showing of Phil was him owning the guards. The Human Fly and Venom owned his goblin behind. Even though Phil has two good odds in his favor (sonics and fire), he still got hammered by Flash. Geez.. Dragavon and they say I have horrible taste in characters. Phil is awful. Yeah this was his "strongest" outing but I use that term ever so loosely. He still got owned badly (okay not as badly as someone else in that issue).

I like him as the Kaizer Sooze the one villain who can get away with it and he did. But Dark Reign did technically open that door to Kingsley's return two fold:

1.) Norman was now in control of a power where he could do things to Kingsley even he couldn't imagine in wiping out his accounts which do make sense. If Norman can't kill him he knows hitting Kingsley badly would be via all that money he made.

2.) Kingsley has to return with Norman ousted. Who is going to fill that void now of defacto Goblin? Norman needs a long rest. There has to be someone that brings the moment you see them. They can't have that with Harry so who's left? They can't just create a new goblin because everytime they've tried they failed in Gray and Menace.

Kingsley has to be the only answer. And even then his reputation precedes him. Let newer readers realize just how nasty of a threat he was.

Agreed here for the most part. The only thing I wouldn't want to have happen to Kingsley is to have him blamed for every fricking thing like Norman was when they brought him back and shoe-horn his relevance into so many things happening in Spidey's life. If they were to do that with Kingsley then it would get tired very quickly. I would rather if they brought Kingsley back be used sparingly and not forcibly. For example I would hate for them to come up with a storyline where Kingsley and Mary Jane slept together and had mutant goblin twins like with Norman and Gwen as that would ruin two more characters and bring two new ones that everybody hates with a passion. That's the one thing I like about Kingsley over Osborn is that he is not the go-to-guy for the many wrongs in Spiderman's life.

by **draco x** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:20 pm

rdrsfn82 wrote:
If he constantly comes back, wins, and then leaves, it's going to get old.

If he comes back and loses, it ruins the point of the character and his story.

If he stays away forever, he's different from everyone else.

There's no positive to bringing him back and he loses all that made him unique when he returned.

Well it depends how he is used and what motivation he would have for returning. As I said the only way he would come back is if he was forced out of retirement which would make sense. Remember even though Kingsley got away, he will always have to look over his shoulder for the rest of his life now that everyone knows he was the Hobgoblin. So many people would be gunning for Kingsley given the fact he got away such as Norman, Fisk, SHIELD, Interpol and other organizations-Plus, Betty Brant would also have tried to track him down along with Spiderman for killing Ned and so on. So even though Kingsley escaped all those years ago, he knows that he will never be safe wherever he went. All the money in the world won't protect him from all the enemies he's made and so I could see him becoming the Hobgoblin again to protect himself which would lead to various other stories.

by **Zechs** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:21 pm

rdrsfn82 wrote:They don't need Kingsley to fill the role vacated by Norman.

That role can be filled by someone like the Kingpin or Doc Ock or by elevating someone else.

Kingsley retired makes him truly special and unique. Kingsley coming back ruined that already. Now, even if he's alive, he's just another villain waiting to be beaten and not someone who had a completed story and who actually won.

True. But this is also comics. Bucky had a completed story. Spider-Man had a completed story. Everyone has a completed story. They're coming back no matter what now alas. No one but Uncle Ben and Batman's parents seem to have a "completed" story nowadays.

by **draco x** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:30 pm

Zechs wrote:
True. But this is also comics. Bucky had a completed story. Spider-Man had a completed story. Everyone has a completed story. They're coming back no matter what now alas. No one but Uncle Ben and Batman's parents seem to have a "completed" story nowadays.

Agreed. If it took several decades to give Wolverine a back story, then who is to say that Kingsley won't be next.

by **Zechs** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:26 pm

Wait a second. That expression on Crime Master's face:

Nah..

by **jeremiahvedder** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:37 pm

Is that Toxin back there?

I'm so far behind...

by **Zechs** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:52 pm

jeremiahvedder wrote:Is that Toxin back there?

I'm so far behind...

New Toxin. Original lost the symbiotic from Blackheart, fell into Crime Master's hands, and Eddie Brock will be it's new host.

by **draco x** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:58 pm

Zechs wrote:
New Toxin. Original lost the symbiotic from Blackheart, fell into Crime Master's hands, and Eddie Brock will be it's new host.

Good grief. This is going to be worst than Anti-Venom. I so want Mulligan back as the host for Toxin as Brock does not fit well with this.

by **fieldy snuts** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:00 pm

Zechs wrote:
New Toxin. Original lost the symbiotic from Blackheart, fell into Crime Master's hands, and Eddie Brock will be it's new host.

Was this confirmed? I thought Brock is KILLING symbiotes.

by **Zechs** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:34 pm

fieldy snuts wrote:
Was this confirmed? I thought Brock is KILLING symbiotes.

Um next issue solicitation (or #18 I forget which one) that changes Eddie's quest. Crime Master forcefully makes someone bond with the Toxin symbiote. Now.. look at that new Toxin. Big long tongue? Bulky look? He was already called Venom and Anti-Venom once. A Brock-fied Toxin seems good odds.

by **draco x** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:51 pm

Zechs wrote:
Um next issue solicitation (or #18 I forget which one) that changes Eddie's quest. Crime Master forcefully makes someone bond with the Toxin symbiote. Now.. look at that new Toxin. Big long tongue? Bulky look? He was already called Venom and Anti-Venom once. A Brock-fied Toxin seems good odds.

This has epic fail written all over it. As overused as Eddie was as Venom, this is not an improvement in any way.

by **Zechs** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:55 pm

draco x wrote:
This has epic fail written all over it. As overused as Eddie was as Venom, this is not an improvement in any way.

I'm in the wait and see mode. I thought the Human Fly's cornball story was the most stupid dreck I ever heard. Then I read the issue and got a wide grin on my face with his note to Flash :twisted:

by **draco x** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:58 pm

Zechs wrote:
I'm in the wait and see mode. I thought the Human Fly's cornball story was the most stupid dreck I ever heard. Then I read the issue and got a wide grin on my face with his note to Flash

Yeah, that last part was epic how he suckered Flash into letting him go free with that reveal. It felt like an episode of Ashton Kutcher's Punk'd.

by **fieldy snuts** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:58 pm

draco x wrote:
This has epic fail written all over it. As overused as Eddie was as Venom, this is not an improvement in any way.

Remender that takes these hair brained concepts and makes gold out of them consistently. How about actually reading the mans work before you trash it?

Epic fail is making a Superman/cyborg hybrid thingy.

by **draco x** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:02 pm

fieldy snuts wrote:
Remender that takes these hair brained concepts and makes gold out of them consistently. How about actually reading the mans work before you trash it?

A good writer doesn't always make a good idea or storyline. I would like to believe this would work but Eddie has had too many symbiote IDs and needs to stick to one now. Besides they never explained what happened to Mulligan, the original host of Toxin.

Epic fail is making a Superman/cyborg hybrid thingy.

No love for Hank Henshaw I take it?