The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

[AaronW]

In my opinion, there is the law and there is what's right. I think if one is going to carry a gun, then that means they intend to kill someone eventually.

[syxxpakk]

If the head homicide detective on the case didn't believe Zimmerman, why are you so willing to?

Hab

Because Zimmerman killed a black kid.

[Cat-Scratch]

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/artic ... rance?bn=1

Trayvon Martin shooting: Court document contradicts Zimmerman’s claim that he was attacked

Associated Press

SANFORD, FLA.—After weeks in hiding, George Zimmerman made his first courtroom appearance Thursday in the shooting of Trayvon Martin.

Prosecutors outlined their murder case against him in court papers, saying the neighbourhood watch volunteer followed and confronted the black teenager after a police dispatcher told him not to.

The affidavit filed in support of the second-degree murder charges appeared to contradict Zimmerman’s claim that Martin, 17, attacked him after he had turned away and was returning to his vehicle.

In the affidavit, prosecutors also said Martin’s mother identified cries for help heard in the background of a 911 call as her son’s. There had been some question as to whether Martin or Zimmerman was the one crying out.

The account of the shooting was released as Zimmerman, 28, appeared at a four-minute hearing in a jailhouse courtroom. He did not enter a plea; that will happen at his arraignment, which was set for May 29. Zimmerman’s attorney, Mark O’Mara, has said his client will plead not guilty. A bond hearing likely will be held April 20, he said.

To prove second-degree murder, prosecutors must show that Zimmerman committed an “imminently dangerous” act that showed a “depraved” lack of regard for human life. The charge carries a mandatory sentence of 25 years in prison and a maximum of life.

In the affidavit, prosecutors said Zimmerman spotted Martin while patrolling his gated community, got out of his vehicle and followed the young man.

“During this time, Martin was on the phone with a friend and described to her what was happening,” the affidavit said. “The witness advised that Martin was scared because he was being followed through the complex by an unknown male and didn’t know why.”

During a recorded call to a police dispatcher, Zimmerman “made reference to people he felt had committed and gotten away with break-ins in his neighbourhood.”

The affidavit continued: “When the police dispatcher realized Zimmerman was pursuing Martin, he instructed Zimmerman not to do that and that the responding officer would meet him. Zimmerman disregarded the police dispatcher and continued to follow Martin who was trying to return to his home.

“Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued.”

The account provided no details on the struggle other than to say that witnesses heard numerous calls for help.

Zimmerman told authorities that Martin attacked him as he going back to his vehicle, punched him in the face, knocked him down and began slamming head against the sidewalk.

For all the relief among civil rights activists over the arrest, legal experts warned it could get thrown out before it ever goes to trial because of Florida’s “stand your ground” law, which gives people a broad right to use deadly force without having to retreat from a fight.

At a pretrial hearing, Zimmerman’s lawyers would only have to prove by a preponderance of evidence — a relatively low legal standard — that he acted in self-defence to get a judge to toss out the second-murder charges. And if that fails and the case goes to trial, the defence can raise the argument again.

Karin Moore, an assistant professor of law at Florida A&M University, said the law “puts a tremendous burden on the state to prove that it wasn’t self-defence.”

Earlier Thursday, Martin’s mother, Sybrina Fulton, raised eyebrows with her comments on NBC’s Today show. When asked what she would say to Zimmerman face-to-face, she said she wanted an apology, then added: “I believe it was an accident. I believe that it just got out of control and he couldn’t turn the clock back.”

Fulton later told the Associated Press she was referring to the encounter between Zimmerman and her son.

“Their meeting was the accident,” Fulton said. “Not the actual act of him shooting him. That was murder . . . They were never supposed to meet.”

[achilles]

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1160270--trayvon-martin-shooting-george-zimmerman-to-make-court-appearance?bn=1

Another NBC-like hatchet job, designed to get Zimmerman. There's nothing factual there that contradicts anything Zimmerman said. It was a court filing by the prosecutor that shows their theory of the case, which is pretty much determined by the word "prosecutor".

It takes at her word Martin's mother, without noting that Zimmerman's experts will find the exact opposite, and even neutral experts might well find that, and without noting her interest in saying that. It doesn't say that this is merely the prosecution's theory of the case, or note what if any evidence backs it up, and seems in fact designed to portray Zimmerman in the same light as the prosecutors.

I've yet to see an unbiased account of this case in the media.

[achilles]

Heh, it's funny looking at the OP now, what with ABC of all things releasing previously unseen pictures that pretty much prove Zimmerman's case.

A new photograph obtained exclusively by ABC News showing the bloodied back of George Zimmerman's head, which was apparently taken three minutes after he shot and killed Trayvon Martin, gives possible credence to his claim that Martin had bashed his head against the concrete as Zimmerman fought for his life.

The revelation comes as his attorney and prosecutors prepare for Zimmerman's bail hearing today, which could result in his being released from a Florida jail. Zimmerman, 28, is being held on charges of second-degree murder for the Feb. 26 shooting of Martin, 17, which could carry a life sentence if he is convicted.

The exclusive image shows blood trickling down the back of Zimmerman's head from two cuts. It also shows a possible contusion forming on the crown of his head. The original police report that night notes that the back of Zimmerman's head was wet, and that he was bleeding from the nose and head.

So much for that surveillance video the next day that "proved" according to Martin's family, the media, (especially ABC itself), and many posters here that he had no injuries and had simply outright murdered Martin.

The best the Martin family lawyer could come up with to rebut this was essentially a version of: "Well, it didn't look like that bad to me."

Poor guy, being reduced to saying that. Which as he well knows totally misses the point of self defense. No jurisdiction in the US requires you to let your attacker actually kill you before you fight back.

And any court would look long and hard at challenging a guy who had his head being repeatedly bashed into concrete at the time and used lethal means to defend himself. At which point he was completely overpowered by Martin, since no one would otherwise let themselves be treated to such a potentially lethal attack.

Which is why I urged caution until more was known. First impressions in such a case, especially with the racial element forcibly injected by one side, are often wrong. At this point, there's no way Zimmerman will get convicted, unless some absolutely positive proof emerges that completely contradicts all the other known physical evidence, and most of the credible eyewitness testimony---OR, and this is much more likely, he's simply convicted to appease those who want him convicted.

[Timbales]

picks a fight, kills someone, gets defended by achilles

[Benderbrau]

picks a fight, kills someone, gets defended by achilles

profits??

[achilles]

picks a fight, kills someone, gets defended by achilles

Picks a fight by walking after someone, than walking away? Pretty sensitive person to start a fight over that.

Putting it another way, jump a guy walking away from you, try your best to kill him, get killed instead, get defended by Timbales...

Sorry, but feeling "dissed" isn't a valid reason to try to murder someone.

[Benderbrau]

Picks a fight by walking after someone, than walking away? Pretty sensitive person to start a fight over that.

Putting it another way, jump a guy walking away from you, try your best to kill him, get killed instead, get defended by Timbales...

Sorry, but feeling "dissed" isn't a valid reason to try to murder someone.

That's a lot of presumption there from someone who keeps crying for everyone to wait for the fact.

[Timbales]

Picks a fight by walking after someone, than walking away? Pretty sensitive person to start a fight over that.

Putting it another way, jump a guy walking away from you, try your best to kill him, get killed instead, get defended by Timbales...

Sorry, but feeling "dissed" isn't a valid reason to try to murder someone.

Fact - if Zimmerman had stayed in his car like he was told to by the police, he wouldn't have been in a situation to kill someone.

[dairydead]

picks a fight, kills someone, gets defended by achilles

I have a feeling you would defend yourself too, even if you were antagonistic to someone.

[dairydead]

Fact - if Zimmerman had stayed in his car like he was told to by the police, he wouldn't have been in a situation to kill someone.

So he deserves to get beat to death because of a stupid impulse? Also, the police said "you dont need to do that" which is far from a command

[Timbales]

So Zimmerman deserves to be beat to death because he made a stupid descision of approaching the wrong guy?

I have a feeling you would defend yourself too, even if you were antagonistic to someone.

Didn't say I wouldn't, but I wouldn't be crying innocent if I was told not to do something, did it, and put myself in the situation where I needed to defend myself.

[achilles]

That's a lot of presumption there from someone who keeps crying for everyone to wait for the fact.

Not really. At this point, it seems almost certain, or as certain as it's possible to be in an incident that no one other than the two participants really got a close look at, that Martin was in fact in the process of attempting to kill Zimmerman when Zimmerman shot him.

Now, you can argue that Martin perhaps intended not to kill Zimmerman, but merely "teach him a lesson", but that's both impossible to prove or disprove, and completely irrelevant. What matters is that he was engaged in an assault on Zimmerman that might very well have proven fatal to Zimmerman had he not managed to stop it.

So Martin's unprovable intent isn't an issue. His actions, which at this point seem quite provable, are.

[dairydead]

Didn't say I wouldn't, but I wouldn't be crying innocent if I was told not to do something, did it, and put myself in the situation where I needed to defend myself.

But he wasnt "told" to do anything, and being stupid and not listening to a suggestion isnt anything someone should die over.