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[S.F. Jude Terror]

That has nothing to do with it (even though many of these BW titles should be very good). The absurdity of "they should be ashamed" for doing this project, well, that's a different story.

Technically, he said they should be ashamed that they're doing this project rehashing someone else's masterpiece instead of creating their own masterpiece.

[ReturnoftheMack]

God, I'm so sick of this argument.

DC has the right to do this.
If you are boycotting this, you're lame.
If you aren't buying it cause it doesn't look interesting or you don't like the creative teams, that's fine.

This is so fucking stupid.

[ReturnoftheMack]

I hope nobody ever writes another Sherlock Holmes story.

Or an Invisible Man story.

Or Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

[GHERU]

I hope nobody ever writes another Sherlock Holmes story.

Or an Invisible Man story.

Or Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

except of course it Alan Moore
/fanboy'd

[ReturnoftheMack]

except of course it Alan Moore
/fanboy'd

All of Alan Moore's stories are based on original creations. Originally created by someone else.

[Mr. Poolman]

The issue for me, I guess, is that these are stories that didn't need telling. I have no problem with the properties being re-used and think that Moore protests too much and argues from place of intellectual dishonesty (also, people often seem to think that being a genius and/or great writer gives one some kind of automatic moral high ground, which is not the case), but I do think that this is little more than a transparent cash grab, no matter the calibre of the creators attached.

Nobody was crying out for prequels to the original story. This is all pretty pointless. But then the pseudo-moral hysteria about use of Moore's concepts is even more pointless still, though of course it's exactly what DC was hoping for in order to drive up sales.

The bat gets it.

[Timbales]

if the only comics produced were what people asked for, there would be a lot of shitty comics out there

[Doc Jon]

I would have rather had a sequel...

[ReturnoftheMack]

I don't even think it matters if these suck or not. This is just the first step towards integrating these characters in the DCU.

Next will be team-ups. Batman/Rorschach, Dr. Manhattan/Spectre, shit like that.

Eventually they'll be fully integrated.

[Doc Jon]

I don't even think it matters if these suck or not. This is just the first step towards integrating these characters in the DCU.

Next will be team-ups. Batman/Rorschach, Dr. Manhattan/Spectre, shit like that.

Eventually they'll be fully integrated.

The last thing DC needs is more people in their universe. They can't even utilize the Charlton characters these guys were based on. I can't see how this could be a good thing.

[Ntikrst]

Technically, he said they should be ashamed that they're doing this project rehashing someone else's masterpiece instead of creating their own masterpiece.

Thank you sir, this is exactly what I mean. Editorial and creative talent needs to stop playing it safe with remakes/sequels/rehashed concepts. Playing it safe is something to be ashamed of.

I don't even think it matters if these suck or not. This is just the first step towards integrating these characters in the DCU.

Next will be team-ups. Batman/Rorschach, Dr. Manhattan/Spectre, shit like that.

Eventually they'll be fully integrated.

Gee, now why won't this work?

The last thing DC needs is more people in their universe. They can't even utilize the Charlton characters these guys were based on. I can't see how this could be a good thing.

Aha, cooler heads do prevail.

[Ntikrst]

I hope nobody ever writes another Sherlock Holmes story.

Or an Invisible Man story.

Or Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

except of course it Alan Moore
/fanboy'd

Guys, there's a big difference between stealing people's characters and recycling ideas.

When did the legend of Amleth become Hamlet before Shakespeare wrote it? When did Birnam Wood come to Dunsinane and Witches warn of men unborn before MacBeth was written? When did lasses from children's fables first get together to swap pornographic tales before Lost Girls? When did a League of Victorian characters unite against a common foe before LoEG? When did Marvelman first realize his entire past was a fabrication and he was the product of his worst enemy before Warrior comics? When did the Charleton characters get together in a Dystopian setting to face off against each other's ideologies before Watchmen? When did The Joker shoot Barbara Gordon through the spine before the Killing Joke? When did Mxyzptlk murder with malice before What Ever Happened To? When did Superman face off against a wonderful Satan analogue like C.W. Saturn before Miracle Monday?

These artists steal characters and settings to explore new ideas and themes previously unexamined in earlier renditions. That's the transformative nature of art. When it's obvious who or what the artist is evoking(outside of an homage) then it's derivative. The world doesn't need any more homages to Alan Moore, the guy's work is already influential enough.

[GHERU]

Guys, there's a big difference between stealing people's characters and recycling ideas.

When did the legend of Amleth become Hamlet before Shakespeare wrote it? When did Birnam Wood come to Dunsinane and Witches warn of men unborn before MacBeth was written? When did lasses from children's fables first get together to swap pornographic tales before Lost Girls? When did a League of Victorian characters unite against a common foe before LoEG? When did Marvelman first realize his entire past was a fabrication and he was the product of his worst enemy before Warrior comics? When did the Charleton characters get together in a Dystopian setting to face off against each other's ideologies before Watchmen? When did The Joker shoot Barbara Gordon through the spine before the Killing Joke? When did Mxyzptlk murder with malice before What Ever Happened To? When did Superman face off against a wonderful Satan analogue like C.W. Saturn before Miracle Monday?

These artists steal characters and settings to explore new ideas and themes previously unexamined in earlier renditions. That's the transformative nature of art. When it's obvious who or what the artist is evoking(outside of an homage) then it's derivative. The world doesn't need any more homages to Alan Moore, the guy's work is already influential enough.

So, its ethical for Moore to turn characters into versions the creators would not recognize nor approve of, its ok for him to expand on classic stories that had been told, its ok for him to tell a Joker's tale all because theft is the norm

but, for a comic book company to try and make money off characters they own, for modern day creators to want to tell stories based on other people's work, hell for DC to still be publishing books about the Joker, all of this is bad because DC is teh evil

no one was begging for a pornographic Alice book, just like no one was begging for Watchmen prequels, both are sophomoric exercises in childhood fantasies. The difference is DC is honest about it and Moore hides behind public domain and a manufactured mystique that pretends to make a team made of of late 19th century literature figures something more than what it was - a superhero book where he didn't have to actually create anything.

[Doc Jon]

So, its ethical for Moore to turn characters into versions the creators would not recognize nor approve of, its ok for him to expand on classic stories that had been told, its ok for him to tell a Joker's tale all because theft is the norm

but, for a comic book company to try and make money off characters they own, for modern day creators to want to tell stories based on other people's work, hell for DC to still be publishing books about the Joker, all of this is bad because DC is teh evil

no one was begging for a pornographic Alice book, just like no one was begging for Watchmen prequels, both are sophomoric exercises in childhood fantasies. The difference is DC is honest about it and Moore hides behind public domain and a manufactured mystique that pretends to make a team made of of late 19th century literature figures something more than what it was - a superhero book where he didn't have to actually create anything.

Can't you just cut and paste this exact same conversation from a previous thread or do you seriously intend to have it again?

[ReturnoftheMack]

GHERU's right.

This whole thing is very hypocritical.

What bothers me is there are people that take the words of this nutcase and try to justify it.

The fact is, Moore is not some great character creator. All his successful work is based on someone else's idea. He writes some great stuff and is a great writer, but he has done it off of existing characters. And it's not a bad thing. Good for him. My favorite comic, Fables, is based on that exact same premise. It's just hypocritical of him to have a problem with others writing "his" characters when they aren't "his" characters in the first place. It's even worse when he says that Blackest Night was ripped off his ideas.

Look at how classily Bill Willingham took the announcement of "Once Upon a Time."

Look at how classless Alan Moore took the announcement of anything he's ever done.

For fuck's sake, the guy is crazy. Stop repeating his garbage.