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[GHERU]

My complaints about the Star Wars Prequels had little to do with them being prequels. It was more of the Jar Jar, midichlorians, Manikin Skywalker of it all.

But if you insist, then you got me. Sick burn, dude...

And I wasn't really complaining about these prequels (seeing as how they haven't even come out yet) just stating that I would probably prefer to see a sequel to the Watchmen. I don't know that I've said that before in another thread, but if I have, then my apologies.

Once again, your efforts are commendable. Please continue fighting the good fight.

you've said in many other threads how you feel about prequels
and, you've had just as many conversations (according to you) about the watchmen prequels with Frag as I had Lost Girls conversations with Ntikrst so, if burns with no foundation get the "super duper not a mawd head up his own ass mr important doctor art man jon" backhanded complement, then my bad

I learned it by watching you

[Doc Jon]

you've said in many other threads how you feel about prequels
and, you've had just as many conversations (according to you) about the watchmen prequels with Frag as I had Lost Girls conversations with Ntikrst so, if burns with no foundation get the "super duper not a mawd head up his own ass mr important doctor art man jon" backhanded complement, then my bad

I learned it by watching you

Your dog die again or something?

Sorry if I mis-typed. As I am aware, I have NEVER had a conversation about integrating these characters into the DCU. With Frag or anyone else. Please review the court records if you so desire, but I think you're being awfully contentious for what amounts to a silly joke.

AFAIK, I haven't had many conversations at all about prequels, except for the Star Wars prequels. ANd again my issue with those regarded the films themselves rather than just being prequels. If anything, I wanted to see the Star Wars prequels made. I thought the idea of seeing the Republic fall and the rise of the Empire would be badass. It's not my fault the fims sucked, and that had little to do with being prequels.

So I'm not really sure what your problem is, but may I suggest some Midol and a warm compress...

[GHERU]

Your dog die again or something?

Sorry if I mis-typed. As I am aware, I have NEVER had a conversation about integrating these characters into the DCU. With Frag or anyone else. Please review the court records if you so desire, but I think you're being awfully contentious for what amounts to a silly joke.

AFAIK, I haven't had many conversations at all about prequels, except for the Star Wars prequels. ANd again my issue with those regarded the films themselves rather than just being prequels. If anything, I wanted to see the Star Wars prequels made. I thought the idea of seeing the Republic fall and the rise of the Empire would be badass. It's not my fault the fims sucked, and that had little to do with being prequels.

So I'm not really sure what your problem is, but may I suggest some Midol and a warm compress...

ohh, jokes about dead dogs - you sir are the king of sick burns!
what was I supposed to be copying and pasting that inspired your initial tear inducing insult? what conversation was I having with one person in multiple threads?

at first, I thought you meant just the Moore argument in general, and I thought your jab to be rather clever - but then I, jokingly, made a similar comment about your loathing of prequels and you slammed your head back into your own ass and started asking questions about specific conversations about this one topic with this one person, thus making your oh so very hurtful slam against me confusing.

or, as I am sure you'll point out in a way that will force me to seek counseling, I'm not all that bright

[Benderbrau]

No one jokes about Thor

[GHERU]

No one jokes about Thor

c'mon man, he joked about my dog dying

if thats not an awesome burn, I don't know what is

Doctor Mr. Teh Awesomesauce Jon is who we should all emulate when it comes to the science, no, the art of insults

[Doc Jon]

ohh, jokes about dead dogs - you sir are the king of sick burns!
what was I supposed to be copying and pasting that inspired your initial tear inducing insult? what conversation was I having with one person in multiple threads?

at first, I thought you meant just the Moore argument in general, and I thought your jab to be rather clever - but then I, jokingly, made a similar comment about your loathing of prequels and you slammed your head back into your own ass and started asking questions about specific conversations about this one topic with this one person, thus making your oh so very hurtful slam against me confusing.

or, as I am sure you'll point out in a way that will force me to seek counseling, I'm not all that bright

Are you having a conversation with someone else?

Have I ever even suggested that you may not be the bright, special flower that you are? I'm not aware that I've ever questioned your intelligence. If I have (even jokingly) then it could only be as a joke.

So I'm not really sure where you're coming from.

[Ntikrst]

So, its ethical for Moore to turn characters into versions the creators would not recognize nor approve of, its ok for him to expand on classic stories that had been told, its ok for him to tell a Joker's tale all because theft is the norm but, for a comic book company to try and make money off characters they own, for modern day creators to want to tell stories based on other people's work, hell for DC to still be publishing books about the Joker, all of this is bad because DC is teh evil

Just because you can’t perceive the distinction, doesn’t mean it isn’t there. The fact remains, Moore took someone else’s characters, and placed them within his original premise to tell new stories. DC is going to regurgitate Moore’s characters AND his premise to tell prequel tales. Even if we ignore the fact that DC stole Watchmen by exploiting an unforseen loophole the real source of butthurt isn’t over their right to do so or not, the pain is over the fact that it’s been 25 years and DC hasn’t come up with anything better.

That’s why the industry is in decline right there, symptom #1. No innovation, no evolution just stagnation and regurgitation of the tried and true. People outgrow formula.

no one was begging for a pornographic Alice book, just like no one was begging for Watchmen prequels, both are sophomoric exercises in childhood fantasies.

One is an original concept, and the other is 25 year old puke with a fresh coat of varnish. Big difference my friend. You say pornographic like it’s a bad word. I’ll take Alice’s pie over Dr. Manhattan's sausage any day of the week.

The difference is DC is honest about it

Feel free to post the link where DC freely admits they are creatively bankrupt and due to harsh economic times the shareholders would be more comfortable with the creative staff rehashing as much tried and true material as possible in all their up coming projects.

and Moore hides behind public domain and a manufactured mystique that pretends to make a team made of of late 19th century literature figures something more than what it was - a superhero book where he didn't have to actually create anything.

That’s the laziest, most ignorant assessment of Moore’s work I’ve ever seen. You describe six issues of other people’s characters standing around, introducing themselves like an old copy of Who’s Who.

[Benderbrau]

c'mon man, he joked about my dog dying

if thats not an awesome burn, I don't know what is

Doctor Mr. Teh Awesomesauce Jon is who we should all emulate when it comes to the science, no, the art of insults

Hi Thor!!

[Ntikrst]

GHERU's right.

You’re both wrong.

This whole thing is very hypocritical.
What bothers me is there are people that take the words of this nutcase and try to justify it.

That’s nothing. You should see how some people dismiss someone who is widely regarded as the Shakespeare of comics as a mere nutcase.

The fact is, Moore is not some great character creator. All his successful work is based on someone else's idea.

Speaking of Shakespeare, did you know out of all his plays, only two were original works? Everything else was based on existing legends or folklore and yet he is widely revered for what he did with those characters. How he specifically presented them and their stories in his particular fashion is what immortalized them. You don’t remember Amleth, but we all know Hamlet.

Art isn't in the cast of characters, it's in the "Vision" or "Take on things", their particular "Spin" on the story and how they "Made it their own." BW is preordained to maintain the same "Vision" that Moore created. That's the fucking difference. It's going to suck for the same reason Ep.1-3 sucks, zero suspense, an exploration of minutia like watching paint dry.

He writes some great stuff and is a great writer, but he has done it off of existing characters. And it's not a bad thing. Good for him. My favorite comic, Fables, is based on that exact same premise. It's just hypocritical of him to have a problem with others writing "his" characters when they aren't "his" characters in the first place.

The only reason why they aren’t Moore’s characters is because DC created a TPB market in B&M bookstores that was spearheaded by Watchmen specifically to ensure that the series remained in print in order to retain the rights. That is exploiting a loophole, which is nothing more than opportunistic theft.

It's even worse when he says that Blackest Night was ripped off his ideas.

Same problem as BW, DC has no clothes, so to speak, they are creatively bankrupt. They’re going to rehash the archives and hope that younger readers won’t figure out that their buying recycled material.

Marvel has been doing it for years.

[Doc Jon]

c'mon man, he joked about my dog dying

if thats not an awesome burn, I don't know what is

Doctor Mr. Teh Awesomesauce Jon is who we should all emulate when it comes to the science, no, the art of insults

I didn't know you had a dog...

It was just a way of illustrating what seemed to be an awfully contentious response to nothing. Same with the PMS joke. If you took either personally, I don't know what to tell you...

[ReturnoftheMack]

So taking what made the characters unique and a draw away from them is irrelevant? Ok...

It would be a terrible move and will fare about as well as the myriad of characters that DC has "integrated" into their universe. Remind me again how those characters have thrived.

They have done better than the Ultraverse who have disappeared.

The fact remains that you either keep these characters unused or you bring them into the fold. Sure, you can make them Earth-W or something, but they will crossover at some point.

[ReturnoftheMack]

I hate Shakespeare and think he's a hack.

Many scholars also feel the same way.

So comparing Moore to Shakespeare means nothing to me.

[ReturnoftheMack]

I do agree with Fieldy though. His post was the most logical.

The only problem with a sequel is that the most interesting characters are dead.

I wouldn't have minded a prequel, but only about the Minutemen, especially Hooded Justice. The Darwyn Cooke one may be good.

[S.F. Jude Terror]

It's like watching dad and dad fight.*





*This metaphorical family has two homosexual dads.

[Doc Jon]

They have done better than the Ultraverse who have disappeared.

The fact remains that you either keep these characters unused or you bring them into the fold. Sure, you can make them Earth-W or something, but they will crossover at some point.

If the only choices are not using them or bringing them into the DCnU, then I choose unused. Not every concept has to be beaten to the ground. You don't have to squeeze every last bit of goodwill out of every project. And every book is not a franchise.

It is exactly this thinking that has led us to the world of endless sequels and reboots we are at today. Good business? Possible, but I doubt it. Eventually, what you're actually doing is numbing the public and churning out crap for the sake of churning out crap.