The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

by **The Bass** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:45 am

First of all, I just want to say I'm not trolling, or seeking an argument, I'm genuinely curious as to people's answers here.

Last week, against my better judgment, I got involved in two seperate arguments online, both related to that idiot Chris Roberson, and then that other moron Erik Larsen got involved aswell, and I was off again, and the usual nonsense that comes out "I cant believe you work in a comic shop", "You should be sacked for not liking Random Shit Indy Book", "I'm going to contact your manager and get you fired". You know, the usual nonsense. How dare I like the Big Two, and some smalltime indy book. And at the time, I was thinking "Why is it BAD, that I like Marvel's characters?" I grew up with Spider-Man. I'm now nearly 29, how dare I want to read a Spider-Man comic, and to that end I pay my 5.10 and buy Ultimate Spider-Man, and not some random indy book published by Image, or some other smalltown group. Why is that so bad? Is it such a crime to want to support Marvel books, at the expense of characters and creative teams I've never heard of.?

So, I'm just looking for peoples thoughts. I just want to stress a few things, in case they come up.

-I consider an indy book as anything written by a creative team who have not worked for Marvel or DC
-I will not buy any book, unless the writer or artist has worked on something I'm familiar with.
-I buy at least one Issue 1 a week, to get exposed to new things.

by **Victorian Squid** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:48 am

The Bass wrote:First of all, I just want to say I'm trolling...

by **MistaT** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:49 am

Victorian Squid wrote:

Saw that too. :lol:

by **The Bass** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:51 am

Well, that was a great start

by **BlueStreak** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:53 am

I don't think there's anything wrong with liking work for hire books. However, some creators do their best work on creator-owned projects, when they aren't constrained by editorial mandates.

For instance, sometimes people are hired to write a specific story in which the beginning, middle and end has already been laid out for them. The quality of that book is almost always significantly less than a story which they have some control over.

by **Chris** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:53 am

There's nothing wrong with liking the Big 2, and Marvel/DC characters.

There's a REASON these characters have been around for 50 or 60 years. The whole mentality that Twig seems to have on this board is just mind blowing to me.

I don't get the idea that it has to be one or the other, or that good ideas can only be seen in indy comics. It's elitist nonsense, really. But it goes both ways..

Marvel/DC isn't better than indie, either. Just because a writer is unknown, or a book doesn't sell like Marvel or DC books doesn't mean it's not good.

Look at The Sixth Gun, for example.. a brilliant indie book from Oni by Cullen Bunn. Say what you will about Bunn's Marvel work so far (and honestly, he hasn't really been given much of a shot.. being thrown crappy Fear Itself nonsense and filler material mostly) but The Sixth Gun and Bunn's other indie stuff has been fantastic. On par with anything else in the industry, IMO.

by **BlueStreak** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:55 am

Yeah, Bunn was exactly who I was thinking of too.

by **Jubilee** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:56 am

Because odds are, if you're given a comic where you can not really change the characters, have a lasting effect on the cast or even create anything new, you're not going to have as good of a story.

Spider-man is a fine character. Quite interesting. Nothing that has been done with him in 20 years has been interesting really. Oh look he's got a new costume. Oh look Doctor Octopus is back. Oh look a new girlfriend. Oh look Mary Jane.

These creators are not allowed to take the characters in new and interesting ways. They're completely hamstrung by which characters can or can't be used or killed. Basically they're stripped of all major creativity. They're given a job to do, and have to write it with massive limitations.

Of course in an indy book you're your own boss (up to a point), which means your book may suck. If you're worth a damn though you'll make something interesting.

by **The Bass** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:56 am

BlueMole wrote:I don't think there's anything wrong with liking work for hire books. However, some creators do their best work on creator-owned projects, when they aren't constrained by editorial mandates.

For instance, sometimes people are hired to write a specific story in which the beginning, middle and end has already been laid out for them. The quality of that book is almost always significantly less than a story which they have some control over.

If I was an editor at Marvel or DC, and a creator gave an interview saying something to the effect of "I'm saving my best stuff for my creator owed book", I'd fire him as soon as humanly possible. I don't half ass it in the shop so I can go home an alphabetise my comics.

by **Jubilee** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:57 am

The Bass wrote:
If I was an editor at Marvel or DC, and a creator gave an interview saying something to the effect of "I'm saving my best stuff for my creator owed book", I'd fire him as soon as humanly possible. I don't half ass it in the shop so I can go home an alphabetise my comics.

Why should comic companies expect the best stuff from the writers when they're given crappy hand me downs and ridiculous limitations?

by **Stephen Day** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:58 am

I think snobishness exists on both sides of the isle in this argument. Some indy fans turn their noses up at mainstream stuff and look down on those who read that stuff. The same can be said for some fans of the big two and it's an annoying habit no matter where it comes from.

by **Victorian Squid** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:01 pm

BTW, independent books, small press, etc, ARE commercial work. :wink:

by **The Bass** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:04 pm

I'm not "turning my nose down", on anything, but I do feel that if an indy creator isn't trying to get work at Marvel or DC, why bother. No kid dreams of making it big in the minor league.

I say, all this, by the way, after reading the latest issue of The Goon, and the ridiculous essay by Powell where he attacked Marvel and DC for not having books like the Goon. Kirkman's another one. The guy failed at Marvel.so he takes potshots at them every two minutes his his little Spider-man fanfic book that now conveniently has a black lead

by **Jubilee** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:06 pm

The Bass wrote:I'm not "turning my nose down", on anything, but I do feel that if an indy creator isn't trying to get work at Marvel or DC, why bother. No kid dreams of making it big in the minor league.

Believe me, a lot more writers dream of creating their own characters than working for Marvel. :lol:

by **Doc Jon** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:08 pm

I tend to like Marvel and DC more than indy stuff. Depends on the book.

Don't really care what anyone else has to say on it either. People's tastes differ.