The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

[The Shadow]

This bill is worse than Obamacare.

How is health care for people bad?

[GLX]

I think all the politicians are so far removed from what America needs and wants that it's not even funny, and are only in it for their own personal gain.

That said, my own values fall just a bit closer to Democrat, so I'll vote that way. It's not like there is any other choice.

[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand

Third party.

[Eli Katz]

^A viable third party will never, ever be successful electorally. Plurality voting systems foster and maintain two-party systems. This phenomenon is called Duverger's law, and basically it explains why the U.S. will always be stuck with Democrats and Republicans and no one else. What's more, the parties at the state level have made it so complicated and expensive to get candidates on the ballot that now it is nearly impossible for a new party to raise the money and develop the organization to run candidates in every state and in every district.

And let's say, for the sake of argument, that a new party formed and was able to run candidates across the country, that party would likely be either somewhat liberal or somewhat conservative. A perfectly centrist party is difficult to imagine, because the center is hard to define and likely shifts from election to election. If a third party were center-right, it would strip votes from the Republicans and guarantee Democrats landslide victories; and if it were center-left, it would undermine Democratic support and give the Republicans dominance. After one or two cycles of vote splitting, voters from the losing faction would wise up and consolidate their vote around one party or force the two parties to merge. And so the two-party system would quickly return. Otherwise, vote splitting on one side would guarantee perpetual electoral victories for the other side.

[The Shadow]

If a third party were center-right, it would strip votes from the Republicans and guarantee Democrats landslide victories; and if it were center-left, it would undermine Democratic support and give the Republicans dominance. After one or two cycles of vote splitting, voters from the losing faction would wise up and consolidate their vote around one party or force the two parties to merge. And so the two-party system would quickly return. Otherwise, vote splitting on one side would guarantee perpetual electoral victories for the other side.

That's not totally true.

In Canada we have three main parties. Conservatives (right), Liberal (left of centre) and NDP (left).

The Liberals had several overwhelming majorities despite the left competition from the NDP who have been a party for over 50+ years now (give or take anyway).

[Eli Katz]

That's not totally true.

In Canada we have three main parties. Conservatives (right), Liberal (left of centre) and NDP (left).

The Liberals had several overwhelming majorities despite the left competition from the NDP who have been a party for over 50+ years now (give or take anyway).

Durverger's law shouldn't be called a law, because it isn't always valid. Both the UK and Canada defy the expectations. But it explains the US well.

But even in Canada, vote splitting occurs and benefits one party over the others. As long as the NDP and the Liberals compete for left-of-center voters, the Conservatives will maintain power. Just as in the '90s, when the Conservatives and the Reform split the right-wing vote and gave the Liberals easy victories.

[Guy Incognito]

I'm still not buying the argument that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints isn't Christian.

Other beliefs might differ, but the core beliefs of Christianity are there: they believe in the Christian Bible and the divinity of Jesus. Not sure what else is necessary to be a Christian.

From my experience at a baptist college, many protestants don't consider catholics as christians as well.

[pastajoe]

From my experience at a baptist college, many protestants don't consider catholics as christians as well.

That's funny, since Protestants originated as Catholics.

[Cat-Scratch]

That's not totally true.

In Canada we have three main parties. Conservatives (right), Liberal (left of centre) and NDP (left).

The Liberals had several overwhelming majorities despite the left competition from the NDP who have been a party for over 50+ years now (give or take anyway).

Gotta fix that.

In Canada we have three main parties. Conservatives (right (rarely) or Liberal), Liberal (left of centre to left) and NDP (far left (socialist/pro-union) but not communist). A little different in each province. In Ontario, there is no real difference between the Conservatives (Tories) and the Liberals (Grits) whom are the government.

Federally, the parties are best described these days as - Conservatives (Western Canada centric (Alberta)), Liberal (barely exist) and NDP (Quebec centric).

The big difference between the Liberals and the NDP (New Democratic Party) is an almost consistent one. The Liberals tend to be general left of centre. The NDP tend more to the social left, but honestly, it's not the same party it was when it began. The NDP never split the vote federally, due mostly to the one and only NDP Ontario government. It was a bad one (tanked the economy) and left Ontario saying not again... until recently... maybe. 20 years can change things... or not. The Liberals long had a strong power base in both Ontario and Quebec. Both are the most populated provinces and thus, the most politically powerful on voting in governments as the seats for MPs are arranged.

Three parties... can mess things up or keep things balanced. Just a matter of what you want to see happen or how many seats one party has to swing things.

[Cat-Scratch]

That's funny, since Protestants originated as Catholics.

Religion, like politics are filled with people whom deny reality, fact and history.

[S.F. Jude Terror]

It's so cute when Canadians play politics.