The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

by **BubbaKanoosh** » Wed May 02, 2012 11:45 pm

I understand the who Mags argument wit h him on the X-men, I maje it too. But Emma has been a hero since Gen X.

I think her hero career is longer then her villainous one.

by **Dragavon** » Wed May 02, 2012 11:46 pm

BlueMole wrote:
Well, we know that the Phoenix is on a collision course with Earth. To the best of my knowledge, that's all we know. Cap's presuming that it's coming because of Hope because they share the same energy source.

Taking a step back, there's two options here:

1) Get Hope off-world and hope that the Phoenix follows.

2) Keep Hope on world and hope that she can control it.

If they choose option one and the Phoenix doesn't follow, Earth goes boom. If they choose option two and they're wrong, they stab the shit out of Hope and put the Phoenix down (just like what happened the last time it came to Earth).

Unless there's some sort of evidence that the Phoenix is definitely going to follow Hope, I wouldn't move her off world. I can understand Cap wanting to control the situation for Option Two (especially as he has an Avenger brought onto the team expressly for killing things) but Option One seems as needlessly risky as doing nothing and trusting Cyke that everything's going to be alright.

Didn't Wolverine try to stab the shit out of Hope and fail miserably?

by **BlueStreak** » Wed May 02, 2012 11:48 pm

The President wrote:
All we learned in Second Coming was that mutants started appearing again with Hope's arrival. I don't remember the Phoenix being part of any prophecy.

The Phoenix manifested multiple times during the whole event (and the two before that too).

Hope blew up Nimrod, the Phoenix appeared, mutants showed up. I admit it's a bit of a stretch, but it caused the only new mutants to show up since House of M.

by **habitual** » Wed May 02, 2012 11:48 pm

The President wrote:
All we learned in Second Coming was that mutants started appearing again with Hope's arrival. I don't remember the Phoenix being part of any prophecy.

I thought it was heavily inferred. I mean didn't she manifest the Phoenix for the first time a the end of Second Coming to destroy Bastion? I thought that was part of the intent.

Hab

by **ReturnoftheMack** » Wed May 02, 2012 11:49 pm

I think the only Phoenix story being acknowledged is the original. I don't think that you can just "stab Hope" after she's possessed.

by **BlueStreak** » Wed May 02, 2012 11:49 pm

Dragavon wrote:Didn't Wolverine try to stab the shit out of Hope and fail miserably?

Wolverine's an amateur. Have Strict do it and it'll stay dead.

Also, remember, they've all dealt with the Phoenix before a couple of years ago. It just took Scott banging Emma a couple of times and the X-Men liking each other to make it go away.

by **habitual** » Wed May 02, 2012 11:50 pm

So where is Cable in all this?

Shouldn't he be more of a wild card than Logan?

I'm guessing at some point we see the equipment that he found on that boat in X-Sanction show up.

Hab

by **ReturnoftheMack** » Wed May 02, 2012 11:50 pm

BlueMole wrote:
The Phoenix manifested multiple times during the whole event (and the two before that too).

Hope blew up Nimrod, the Phoenix appeared, mutants showed up. I admit it's a bit of a stretch, but it caused the only new mutants to show up since House of M.

I'll take your word for it cause I don't remember.

by **Dragavon** » Wed May 02, 2012 11:51 pm

BlueMole wrote:
Wolverine's an amateur. Have Strict do it and it'll stay dead.

Also, remember, they've all dealt with the Phoenix before a couple of years ago. It just took Scott banging Emma a couple of times and the X-Men liking each other to make it go away.

Since the current teams are being lead by Dumb and Dumber, I don't see the latter happening.

by **BlueStreak** » Wed May 02, 2012 11:54 pm

habitual wrote:So where is Cable in all this?

Shouldn't he be more of a wild card than Logan?

I'm guessing at some point we see the equipment that he found on that boat in X-Sanction show up.

Hab

He's sleeping off being written by Jeff Loeb.

by **Dragavon** » Wed May 02, 2012 11:59 pm

habitual wrote:So where is Cable in all this?

Shouldn't he be more of a wild card than Logan?

I'm guessing at some point we see the equipment that he found on that boat in X-Sanction show up.

Hab

His back is broken from the weight of this gun:

He's currently in a wheelchair peeing into a colostomy bag.

by **Zechs** » Thu May 03, 2012 12:25 am

BubbaKanoosh wrote:I understand the who Mags argument wit h him on the X-men, I maje it too. But Emma has been a hero since Gen X.

I think her hero career is longer then her villainous one.

She was a villain from the late 70s to early 90s (when was Bishop's first appearance?). So.. eleven to twelve years? She was a hero from the mid 90s to now. So that's going on almost twenty.

by **fieldy snuts** » Thu May 03, 2012 12:25 am

habitual wrote:
I think in the future that Madrox and Layla visit in X-Factor they discover that Bishop thinks that Hope was the mutant responsible for humans incarcerating mutants in concentration camps. I don't think there was any real proof of this being Hope.

Hab

I thought they kept it ambiguous so that it could go either way in future stories rather than just let it be known right then and there. In Cables timeline she was a messiah and in Bishops she was responsible for something horrible that resulted in yet another Days of the Future Past type future.

And most likely the Phoenix will be the tipping point to either mass destruction or the mutant renaissance. Hell of a gamble. And people think this justifies Cyclops's argument?

by **habitual** » Thu May 03, 2012 12:34 am

fieldy snuts wrote:

I thought they kept it ambiguous so that it could go either way in future stories rather than just let it be known right then and there. In Cables timeline she was a messiah and in Bishops she was responsible for something horrible that resulted in yet another Days of the Future Past type future.

And most likely the Phoenix will be the tipping point to either mass destruction or the mutant renaissance. Hell of a gamble. And people think this justifies Cyclops's argument?

It was ambiguous whom she was in the Cable series, it was pretty clear in Second Coming.

Hab

by **alaska1125** » Thu May 03, 2012 12:52 am

BlueMole wrote:
Well, we know that the Phoenix is on a collision course with Earth. To the best of my knowledge, that's all we know. Cap's presuming that it's coming because of Hope because they share the same energy source.

Taking a step back, there's two options here:

1) Get Hope off-world and hope that the Phoenix follows.

2) Keep Hope on world and hope that she can control it.

If they choose option one and the Phoenix doesn't follow, Earth goes boom. If they choose option two and they're wrong, they stab the shit out of Hope and put the Phoenix down (just like what happened the last time it came to Earth).

Unless there's some sort of evidence that the Phoenix is definitely going to follow Hope, I wouldn't move her off world. I can understand Cap wanting to control the situation for Option Two (especially as he has an Avenger brought onto the team expressly for killing things) but Option One seems as needlessly risky as doing nothing and trusting Cyke that everything's going to be alright.

No, option one seems pretty level headed. Option two seems like the plan of a lunatic. Christ, has anyone read anything about the Phoenix??? Galactus defers to it for God's sake...