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[The Shadow]

An Edmonton high school teacher says he has been suspended for giving students zeros on uncompleted assignments or exams.

Lynden Dorval, a physics teacher at Ross Sheppard High School, has been giving the mark for work that wasn't handed in or tests not taken even though it goes against the school's "no-zero" policy.

'It's a way of pushing kids through even though they're not actually doing the work. '—Lynden Dorval, teacher

The thinking behind the policy is that failing to complete assignments is a behavioural issue and marks should reflect ability, not behaviour.

Dorval said he couldn't in good conscience comply with the rule.

"I just didn't have a choice," he said. "I just couldn't not do it. I tried to talk myself out of it many times, but it was just something so important to me, I just had to go through with it."

The policy was adopted by the school 1½ years ago, Dorval said.

Teachers were told to no longer give zeros. Instead an uncompleted test or assignment would be marked with a comment.

"It's what they call social promotion," Dorval said "It's a way of pushing kids through even though they're not actually doing the work. It's a way of getting them through, getting their credits and of course making the staff look very good."

Teachers were instructed to use their "informed professional judgement" at the end of the year when handing out marks, he said.

"Some would, in fact, lower the mark on what wasn't done," Dorval said. "Other teachers would just let the mark go, so there was a real inconsistency on how (the policy) was being applied."

Dorval believes the policy leaves students with the impression they don't need to be accountable for their actions, he said. 'Student should be accountable'

"That's against what I've been doing my whole career because I believe the student should be accountable for what they're doing."

Dorval said he always gave uncompleted work what is called "reluctant zeros," where his students were given a number of opportunities to make up the assignment and have the zero replaced with a mark.

"Most of my students did that," he said. "By the end of the year, I hardly had any zeros at all."

He does recall however, one student who had only completed six of 15 items.

Parents are largely unaware of the policy, as teachers were instructed not to speak about it, he said.

Other schools in the Edmonton public system also use no-zero marking, he said.

Schools as far away as Ontario and Texas had also adopted, but later abandoned the philosophy.
Most teachers support him, Dorval says

Dorval was suspended earlier this month and is no longer allowed on school property.

But he said most teachers at the school support him and are envious that he can afford to take a stand.

"I have 35 years. I don't really want to retire now, but if I have to, I can retire and live on my pension.

He accepts by going public he will likely be fired.

"To me this is the right thing," he said. "It had to be done."

The Edmonton Public Schools said Dorval was not suspended over the zero grade policy.

"The situation is far more serious and complex," the district said on its Facebook site. "This is a staff discipline issue and we can’t speak to the specifics of this individual case.

"The School Act authorizes suspensions for only three reasons: if there are reasonable grounds for believing the teacher has been guilty of gross misconduct, neglecting the teacher’s duty or neglecting to obey a lawful order of the board."

The superintendent of Edmonton Public Schools, Edgar Schmidt, refused to discuss the specifics of Dorval's case during a hastily-called news conference Thursday afternoon.

Instead, he told reporters that it's important for teachers to know and follow the rules.

"When an assessment plan has been put in place at a school level, it's my expectation that every staff member will stick to that plan and make sure they are supportive of the work of the entire staff and the principal in relation to student assessment," Schmidt said.

"And giving good information to students about the work they are actually doing."

Dorval believes he was suspended for insubordination. He will likely appeal his suspension.


Student reaction to suspension

"He shouldn't even be teaching anymore. If he wants to hand out zeros, he should be doing some other job — not a teacher."

—Ryan Grouette, Grade 10

"If students show up they deserve a minimum mark. A zero seems a bit extreme."

—Cindy Smith, Grade 11

"I think he should be allowed to teach. He's a good teacher from what I hear."

—Cassandra Gregory, Grade 12

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/ ... ppard.html

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As a teacher of high school students who give PLENTY of zeros... all I can say to this is

How are kids to learn they should be held accountable? What does this teach them? And how will they fair when they get into the real world??????

[Log-Man]

There's a reason they didn't want the teachers to talk about it-the admin looks absolutely asinine, and firing this teacher will only make it worse. I have no doubt that there are a lot of parents in favor of this policy, though.

[GLX]

[DMM]

I can't find the right words to express my feeling on this, so...

[ThatGuyRoman]

Nice to know Canada's education system is questionable too.

[HNutz]

"You should get something for just showing up"?

Bullshit.

[e_galston]

"You should get something for just showing up"?

Bullshit.

so if they can't give zeroes can they give 1s.. that way the kid "gets something for showing up" but also doesn't pass the assignment and potentially the class...

[Dragavon]

"You should get something for just showing up"?

Bullshit.

Remember that's a high school kid saying that. They're known for saying stupid things.

[syxxpakk]

I was big on the give zeroes for work they didn't do thing. But more and more I'm leaning away from it. At the very least, give them every opportunity to make it up - which this guy seems to have done and should be applauded for.

[Herald]

Sorry, kids, but if you put in 0 work, you should get 0 score.
PERIOD.

[HNutz]

I was big on the give zeroes for work they didn't do thing. But more and more I'm leaning away from it. At the very least, give them every opportunity to make it up - which this guy seems to have done and should be applauded for.

Oh, I'd give a kid a 40 if they turned in 6 out of 15 (and got them all right) and let them make it up... but if they don't do any work, they shouldn't get any credit.

But you can't turn in 40% of the assignments for the grading period and expect a passing grade, IMO.

[syxxpakk]

Eh, it's a tricky subject. It's easy to say "they're lazy and deserve it" because that means we don't have to think about the "why didn't they do it"-part. The problem is, I don't really see a way around it. I assign 50s for kids who don't do their work. It's still failing, but at least with a 50 there's a glimmer of hope of getting back into passing.

It reminds me of "Bart Gets an F" from the Simpsons. Bart shouldn't have been promoted to the next grade (and technically he wasn't since he's always in Krabapple's class - but you know what I mean). He didn't have the grades to do so, for sure. In fact the only reason he was promoted was because he displayed that he learned something. And at the end of the day, our job isn't to assign numerical values - it's to make sure our kids are learning.

There are no easy answers to this problem, despite how easily some might answer it. I had a kid who was out for 40+ days in my class, never did his work, wouldn't take tests, etc. There's a greater problem there than not doing his work. Why didn't he come? Sure, you can say "he's lazy" or "he doesn't care," but like I said, that's the easy solution. Unfortunately, it's not the right one. But that's the tough part of the job, I guess.

[syxxpakk]

Another way to look at is at the end of my pathway, students take the Adobe Certified Associate's exam. Has anyone here ever taken that? In my district, of which they're 8 high schools, since that exam has been instituted I would guess 3 years ago, not a single student has ever passed it. But I defy anyone to tell me my kids can't use Dreamweaver - because they can. But a numerical value on an incredibly difficult test that is definitely not geared towards high schoolers say they can't.

What about kids who are dyslexic or can't read or the ones who have learning disabilities that slip through the cracks? My second year of teaching I had a kid who couldn't read and he wasn't doing a single assignment and failing my class (and every other one). He was in high school and couldn't read. I didn't fail him either, but I gave him these videos to help him do his work with. His other teachers weren't so kind. I don't work there anymore, but I imagine he's probably dropped out. Is it his fault he didn't do the work because he didn't know how to read? Who knows. It's an incredibly difficult subject.

[Cat-Scratch]

From what I hear from my friends with kids still in grade school, here in Toronto and Oshawa, they don't even bother to given a numerical value to the kids' grades anymore. Seems it's also impossible to fail. Apparently it would be "bad for the child's moral and development within society", or as my friends were told.

Looney Left took over the schools decades ago and now are proving it. Oh while also of course hiding if the teachers, etc. are really doing their jobs.

Just look at the attitudes on two of the kids! Just like Occupy... "GIMME!!! GIMME!!! GIMME!!! I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE UNLESS THERE'S A REWARD!!! GIMME!!! I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE UNLESS THERE'S A REWARD!!! GET IN MY WAY IN BE DESTROYED YOU OPPRESSOR!!!"

[Herald]

Eh, it's a tricky subject. It's easy to say "they're lazy and deserve it" because that means we don't have to think about the "why didn't they do it"-part. The problem is, I don't really see a way around it. I assign 50s for kids who don't do their work. It's still failing, but at least with a 50 there's a glimmer of hope of getting back into passing.

It reminds me of "Bart Gets an F" from the Simpsons. Bart shouldn't have been promoted to the next grade (and technically he wasn't since he's always in Krabapple's class - but you know what I mean). He didn't have the grades to do so, for sure. In fact the only reason he was promoted was because he displayed that he learned something. And at the end of the day, our job isn't to assign numerical values - it's to make sure our kids are learning.

Mmmmm... but the question is, are they learning enough to be able to cope with the next grade?? You have to worry that you may be throwing them out of the frying pan and into the fire.

There are no easy answers to this problem, despite how easily some might answer it. I had a kid who was out for 40+ days in my class, never did his work, wouldn't take tests, etc. There's a greater problem there than not doing his work. Why didn't he come? Sure, you can say "he's lazy" or "he doesn't care," but like I said, that's the easy solution. Unfortunately, it's not the right one. But that's the tough part of the job, I guess.

If there's some real underlying problem, then I agree that some consideration should go into the grades. But if they ARE just lazy or don't care, then frankly, they should get the low score they "earned".