The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

by **ReturnoftheMack** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:52 pm

Ntikrst wrote:
You're the Master of Magnetism, you can manipulate the Earth's magnetic field to redirect any nuke harmlessly into the upper atmosphere. All you have to do is stay close to Mom and everything will be fine.

You're still going to roll over and do as you're fucking told? Might makes right, and your might rivals the government's

You are using Magneto, a villain, as an example on what to do while trying to prove the X-Men aren't villains. :lol:

Utopia is a sovereign mutant nation isn't it? Besides, Iron Man had legitimate warrants for his fellow avengers who refused to comply with registration. There's the hypocrisy.

If Utopia is a sovereign nation then the X-Men should stop setting foot in the U.S. without their passports. :lol:

Iron Man was right though. :smt102

Also, Utopia is a sovereign nation because of threats. I doubt they are recognized by anyone.

by **ReturnoftheMack** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:54 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:Presumably the unsaid part of the X-Men's plan is that the Phoenix possesses hope, and then the X-Men do their best to help her control it, and their emotional connections or whatever help her to overcome it, which is something they have experience with. The Avengers seem to have no logical plan past kidnapping hope... unless you count stabbing her with claws. It seems like stressing out the likely host, or angering her, is unwise.

The X-Men can still do this same plan on the Moon or Mars while working with the Avengers. They don't need to make San Francisco ground zero of their plan.

by **S.F. Jude Terror** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:56 pm

The President wrote:
The X-Men can still do this same plan on the Moon or Mars while working with the Avengers. They don't need to make San Francisco ground zero of their plan.

So maybe the Avengers should have come and offered to help, and then suggested that, instead of telling them "We're not asking, we're telling you. Give us Hope."

by **Ntikrst** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:58 pm

The President wrote:
At least they are trying something. Their plan isn't "let this destructive force come to earth and possess a 16 year old girl. Cap never said he was going to kill Hope.

Fine let them try all they want, they don't need to rendition Hope's ass.

No, they want to stop it. They have sent their strongest members to destroy/divert the Phoenix. Hope is plan B. I don't even know where you are getting the negotiating stuff from.

At some point Hope could be used as leverage for diplomacy, either by X or A. In this scenario, X is more qualified to deal with Phoenix.

Mutants shouldn't be allowed any approach because they aren't willing to work with anyone.

Niether are the Avengers, they just wanna be in charge.

They are saying "we are doing this our way and fuck the world." Cyclops doesn't even have a plan. He is just waiting for the Phoenix to come to earth to take over Hope.

What else is he supposed to do, go out in space with all his cosmic powered buddies to try and stop it? If he can't get his hands on an ultimate nullifier, diplomacy is the best option when dealing with superior forces.

My question is this: what would Cyclops do if it wasn't Phoenix coming, but Galactus? Would he tell the Avengers to wait and see?

A better question would be should The Avengers use one of Doom's time platforms to go back in time and space to Zenn-La and arrest Norrin Radd before he can strike a bargain with Galactus to spare his world?

by **ReturnoftheMack** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:07 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:
So maybe the Avengers should have come and offered to help, and then suggested that, instead of telling them "We're not asking, we're telling you. Give us Hope."

Cap said "we need to take Hope into protective custody." Then he said "WE need to find a way to stop it."

Cyclops' response? "Get off my island."

Knowing Cap's character, everyone including Cyclops knows that Cap is always listening to people and willing to work with other heroes.

by **Chris** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:09 pm

at people trying to justify the X-Men's (Cyclops') actions...

by **alaska1125** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:09 pm

Are people unfamiliar with the Phoenix and what it generally does? It seems like it, but that's baffling to me...

by **Ntikrst** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:10 pm

The President wrote:
The X-Men can still do this same plan on the Moon or Mars while working with the Avengers. They don't need to make San Francisco ground zero of their plan.

The distance from the Moon or Mars from San Fran or anywhere else on Earth is irrelevant to an intergalactic entity like Phoenix. If she gets pissed on Mars, she's not going to spare the Earth because it's the planet next door.

The whole galaxy is at risk.

by **ReturnoftheMack** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:14 pm

Ntikrst wrote:Fine let them try all they want, they don't need to rendition Hope's ass.

They need to get Hope off planet ASAP.

At some point Hope could be used as leverage for diplomacy, either by X or A. In this scenario, X is more qualified to deal with Phoenix.

Diplomacy? Ok, again, start the diplomacy in outer space. Why wait for the Phoenix to get to earth first? It's like Saddam Hussein asking for a diplomatic solution after the U.S. takes Baghdad. :lol:

Niether are the Avengers, they just wanna be in charge.

That's stupid. There is no indication that this is an ego thing and if you think it is, then you haven't been reading comics.

What else is he supposed to do, go out in space with all his cosmic powered buddies to try and stop it? If he can't get his hands on an ultimate nullifier, diplomacy is the best option when dealing with superior forces.

Yes. He has cosmic buddies. He has your friend the Master of MAgnetism. And how many times have the X-Men visited the Shiar.

A better question would be should The Avengers use one of Doom's time platforms to go back in time and space to Zenn-La and arrest Norrin Radd before he can strike a bargain with Galactus to spare his world?

Your question makes no sense and is irrelevant.

by **ReturnoftheMack** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:16 pm

Ntikrst wrote:
The distance from the Moon or Mars from San Fran or anywhere else on Earth is irrelevant to an intergalactic entity like Phoenix. If she gets pissed on Mars, she's not going to spare the Earth because it's the planet next door.

The whole galaxy is at risk.

The Shiar also have more experience with the Phoenix and they are coming to kill Hope.

You don't know the Phoenix would bother coming to Earth if Hope isn't there.

by **ReturnoftheMack** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:17 pm

Holland Oats wrote::lol: at people trying to justify the X-Men's (Cyclops') actions...

It's weird isn't it?

I could understand being on the X-Men's side just because you like the characters better, but justifying their actions is crazy to me.

by **Ntikrst** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:19 pm

The President wrote:
You are using Magneto, a villain, as an example on what to do while trying to prove the X-Men aren't villains.

It's just the first power set that came to mind, be Thor if you want. You'll still dance around the issue because there's no way you'd hand your mother over to the government if you had the power to protect her and deal with the situation yourself.

Nobody's that big of a Buddy Bear. :wink:

Utopia is a sovereign nation because of threats. I doubt they are recognized by anyone.

I doubt the world recognized America back in 1776 either, look at you guys now. Threats and the ability to back them up are how countries get a seat at the table of diplomacy in the international community.

by **ReturnoftheMack** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:31 pm

Ntikrst wrote:
It's just the first power set that came to mind, be Thor if you want. You'll still dance around the issue because there's no way you'd hand your mother over to the government if you had the power to protect her and deal with the situation yourself.

Nobody's that big of a Buddy Bear.

You don't think Thor would hand in his brother? :lol:

I doubt the world recognized America back in 1776 either, look at you guys now. Threats and the ability to back them up are how countries get a seat at the table of diplomacy in the international community.

Yeah this is the performance poster in you coming out again.

Listen well, because you can't have it both ways. Either Utopia is a sovereign nation so they don't have the rights of the United States, so the Avengers are just invading a dangerous enemy near their border or the X-Men have the rights of America in which they disobeying an order from their government. Either way, the Avengers have the law behind them.

by **Ntikrst** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:34 pm

The President wrote:
They need to get Hope off planet ASAP.

Can't get away far enough fast enough. What if Phoenix is pissed Hope isn't here? What if Phoenix doesn't take the bait? Avengers can't stop her here, there or anywhere.

Diplomacy? Ok, again, start the diplomacy in outer space. Why wait for the Phoenix to get to earth first? It's like Saddam Hussein asking for a diplomatic solution after the U.S. takes Baghdad.

If God invaded Kuwait, I think diplomacy would be the best course of action. Don't you remember your Stones?

So if you meet me, have some courtesy
Have some sympathy and some taste
Use all your well learned politics
Or I'll lay your soul to waste.

The Avengers' hubris could get the whole galaxy wiped out.

Your question makes no sense and is irrelevant.

My question makes perfect sense. Why would The Avengers get in the way of Hope and The Phoenix when they sure as hell wouldn't try and get in the way of Norrin Radd and Galactus?

by **ReturnoftheMack** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:40 pm

Ntikrst wrote:Can't get away far enough fast enough. What if Phoenix is pissed Hope isn't here? What if Phoenix doesn't take the bait? Avengers can't stop her here, there or anywhere.

What if pigs could fly? At least the Avengers are trying something. It may not work but it's worth a shot.

If God invaded Kuwait, I think diplomacy would be the best course of action. Don't you remember your Stones?

So if you meet me, have some courtesy
Have some sympathy and some taste
Use all your well learned politics
Or I'll lay your soul to waste.

The Avengers' hubris could get the whole galaxy wiped out.

Or it could save the world. :smt102

My question makes perfect sense. Why would The Avengers get in the way of Hope and The Phoenix when they sure as hell wouldn't try and get in the way of Norrin Radd and Galactus?

Galactus was going to destroy Zenn-La and didn't.

There is no guarantee the Phoenix will stop once it gets Hope. And they could still try that plan - ON THE MOON!!!!!