The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

by **Ol' Pointy Ears** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:22 pm

draco x wrote:
In fact, I have watched reruns of GI Joe, Transformers, Thundercats, TMNT, He-Man, She-Ra, Defenders Of The Earth and a few others and I will concede that the writing was silly and stupid at times but it is way better than most shows nowadays which are universally dreadful all over. The truth be told, I watch the older cartoons more than the new ones because of how the latter fails to engage me for the most part. The only new shows I have watched is Scooby Doo Mystery Incorporated, Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, Young Justice, Battle Force 5, GI Joe Renegades but that's because they have good writing. The others like USM I have little interest in sitting through.

While we do share some likes are opinions are far apart it seems when it comes to animated products. DC Animated Universe set the bar really high for comics fan and everything that has come since Batman TAS is going to be compared to it and hardly anything will live up to it's greatness (thats the DCUA/Timmverse as a whole). Old HB and WB stuff holds up better because the characters are so classic. The 80's and 90's stuff doesn't hold up that well because most of it was pretty bad when actually looked back on, but some people like you actually dig it and thats cool. I think the more current (last decade or so) of shows is far superior to any of the 80's or 90's stuff but still isn't classic like the much older stuff, where it will stand the test of time and be as appreciated as it should.

by **fieldy snuts** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:31 pm

draco x wrote:
I respectfully disagree with your assessment there as for starters, G1 Transformers Season 3 was horrible for the most part. The only things likeable about it was the theme song, Cyclonus and the fact that Hasbro had the good sense to bring back Optimus Prime towards the end because Rodimus sucked as his successor( Believe me, I tried liking him but I couldn't). Also Galvatron was just a crazy, trigger-happy douche and not the cunning and brilliant mastermind Megatron was.
The 80's shows, whether or not anyone likes it, will be remembered more fondly than most 2000s cartoons. You all say that some of the shows back then were stupid but guess what, the shows nowadays are way more stupid-obviously you have not watched Spongebob Squarepants, Stoked, Johnny Test, World Of Quest, Totally Spies, etc and a barrage of other ones that I care not to mention.

WTF @ the bolded part. Really. Budiansky's casrwash of doom comic was a better scheme than anything in the G1 cartoon. The ep "Megatrons Master Plan" alone was retarded.

As for season 3:
Starscream's Ghost
Ghost in the Machine
Dark Awakening
Chaos
Webworld
Call of the Primitives
Five Faces of Darkness

Were all shockingly decent episodes.

by **Zechs** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:02 pm

fieldy snuts wrote:

WTF @ the bolded part. Really. Budiansky's casrwash of doom comic was a better scheme than anything in the G1 cartoon. The ep "Megatrons Master Plan" alone was retarded.

As for season 3:
Starscream's Ghost
Ghost in the Machine
Dark Awakening
Chaos
Webworld
Call of the Primitives
Five Faces of Darkness

Were all shockingly decent episodes.

I agree. Those episodes you mentioned are the best of the entire series.

by **PDH** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:37 am

draco x wrote:
A few things wrong with this statement:

1. Cancellation-bound Ultimate Spiderman is not fit to be compared to a majority of cartoons that were created. If you are comparing prior shows to this current Amazing Friends/ Brave & The Bold pastice, then we are at an impasse, my friend. Plus, as I said before, USM will never be mentioned in the same breadth as TMNT, Transformers( G1), GI Joe( 1), Thundercats, He-Man, She-Ra, etc, once the show goes off the air. In fact most will still be talking about how Spectacular Spiderman was much better than the show that replaced it.
2. So what if those prior shows had less than perfect writing? It still doesn't take away from the fact that the stories were engaging and interesting. I will admit that the writing was silly and corny at times but ar least they knew how to engage the audiences-Something that most cartoons currently don't have for the most part. The only good cartoons that have come out in the 2000s have been TMNT( 2002), Justice League, Justice League Unlimited, Young Justice, The Batman, Spectacular Spiderman, Battleforce 5, GI Joe Renegades, Scooby Doo Mystery Incorporated, Wolverine & The X-Men, Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes and a few others. But for the most part, the cartoons nowadays are crap and make one appreciate the older stuff.
3. You did have me when you said Ultimate Spiderman is inferior to the Avengers and Young Justice cartoons but I will add it's inferior to a lot of other cartoons as well. Well actually USM is preferable to Spongebob Squarepants and Dora The Explorer in all fairness as those are shows I would never watch even if I had kids.

The one thing that I explicitly disputed in your post was the quality of the writing in 80s cartoons and you seem to have basically conceded that point with your 2.

Look, I watched most of these shows and loved them when I was younger. Even today they still have a lot of nostalgic value to me. Like I say, I think there was a lot of creativity and imagination behind them that still shines through. Watch any given episode, though, and it's hard to really stick your nose up at the kids today. The problem with nostalgia is that the only requirement for something to have nostalgic value is that you saw it when you were young. So yes, there will be people who look back on Spongebob Squarepants with misty eyes and, really, there isn't a whole hell of a lot that we can say about that given some of the crap that we used to watch.

If you include things like the broader DCAU from Batman:TAS onwards cartoons have taken a huge leap since those days. There have been some genuinely classic shows that will still hold up. Future generations won't have to appeal to nostalgia they'll be able to point to Justice League: Unlimited and say, 'Here, this is what we used to watch' and it will still be pretty damn good.

You write: "The only good cartoons that have come out in the 2000s have been TMNT( 2002), Justice League, Justice League Unlimited, Young Justice, The Batman, Spectacular Spiderman, Battleforce 5, GI Joe Renegades, Scooby Doo Mystery Incorporated, Wolverine & The X-Men, Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes and a few others."

But this is a pretty good list! And it's incomplete, as you say. Where is Avatar the Last Airbender, for example? One of the greatest cartoons of all-time.

You are being way too hard on today's animation and not nearly hard enough on the animations of the 80s.

by **Draco x** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:26 pm

PDH wrote:
The one thing that I explicitly disputed in your post was the quality of the writing in 80s cartoons and you seem to have basically conceded that point with your 2.

Look, I watched most of these shows and loved them when I was younger. Even today they still have a lot of nostalgic value to me. Like I say, I think there was a lot of creativity and imagination behind them that still shines through. Watch any given episode, though, and it's hard to really stick your nose up at the kids today. The problem with nostalgia is that the only requirement for something to have nostalgic value is that you saw it when you were young. So yes, there will be people who look back on Spongebob Squarepants with misty eyes and, really, there isn't a whole hell of a lot that we can say about that given some of the crap that we used to watch.

If you include things like the broader DCAU from Batman:TAS onwards cartoons have taken a huge leap since those days. There have been some genuinely classic shows that will still hold up. Future generations won't have to appeal to nostalgia they'll be able to point to Justice League: Unlimited and say, 'Here, this is what we used to watch' and it will still be pretty damn good.

You write: "The only good cartoons that have come out in the 2000s have been TMNT( 2002), Justice League, Justice League Unlimited, Young Justice, The Batman, Spectacular Spiderman, Battleforce 5, GI Joe Renegades, Scooby Doo Mystery Incorporated, Wolverine & The X-Men, Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes and a few others."

But this is a pretty good list! And it's incomplete, as you say. Where is Avatar the Last Airbender, for example? One of the greatest cartoons of all-time.

You are being way too hard on today's animation and not nearly hard enough on the animations of the 80s.

Agreed for the most part. My overall point was that cartoons a few decades ago weren't perfect but they were groundbreaking at the time came out. For example, a lot of the Hanna Barbera cartoons that came out in the 60s, 70s, 80s and even 90s set the bar for a lot of other cartoons to come out afterwards-so in a sense, a lot of cartoons back then deserve proper respect whether or not they were perfect. For example, I concede that TMNT( 2002) version was better than the 80's incarnation in some ways but without the 80's cartoon, would the Ninja Turtles franchise be as big as it was? The same thing can be said about Spiderman: The Animated Series in the 90s-I am aware that some people think that Spectacular Spiderman is a much better cartoon than its predecessor( I don't personally) but in a sense, SSM owes it success to STAS before it for setting the bar. So in all, we can criticize the older cartoons for what they lacked but without them, the present cartoons wouldn't be where they are today without the ones before them.

by **Draco x** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:40 pm

fieldy snuts wrote:

WTF @ the bolded part. Really. Budiansky's casrwash of doom comic was a better scheme than anything in the G1 cartoon. The ep "Megatrons Master Plan" alone was retarded.

As for season 3:
Starscream's Ghost
Ghost in the Machine
Dark Awakening
Chaos
Webworld
Call of the Primitives
Five Faces of Darkness

Were all shockingly decent episodes.

Quick question: out of all the Transfomers cartoons that have been created, which incarnation do people identify with more or better yet which one lasted longer outside of the G1 incarnation? I mean Beast Wars was good fun and all but the original Transformers cartoon is the one people talk about the most. Plus, apart from blasting and shooting things, name one good plan Galvatron ever came up with in Season 3? Also if you want to talk about good episodes, here are some from Season 1 & 2 as well:

Enter The Nightbird
Starscream's Brigade
SOS Dino Bots
War Of The Dino Bots
A Plague Of Insecticons
Dinobot Island
A Prime Problem
Atlantis Arise
The Insecticon Syndrome
Megatron's Master Plan
Desertion Of The Dinobots
The God Gambit
Prime Target
The Key To Vector Sigma
Kremzeek

by **Zechs** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:29 pm

Well.. that's it. *sniff* All the episodes are out now.

by **Zechs** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:52 pm

WHY MUST THIS SHOW END?! Dear God those last four episodes. They were.. perfect.

by **KingPagla** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:06 pm

Zechs wrote::cry: WHY MUST THIS SHOW END?! Dear God those last four episodes. They were.. perfect.

The name of the thread is The Marvel Universe on Disney XD Thread!
GTFO with your thieving, spoiling ass self! :smt013

by **Zechs** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:10 pm

KingPagla wrote:
The name of the thread is The Marvel Universe on Disney XD Thread!
GTFO with your thieving, spoiling ass self!

I could always share. :-D

"It's the end of the world why are you not freaking out?! "Because I can hear it." "Hear what?" "Thunder."

EPIC....

by **KingPagla** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:16 pm

I ain't clickin' shit!

by **Zechs** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:44 pm

KingPagla wrote:I ain't clickin' shit!

Come one little episode. Then another. Then another. What's the worst that could happen? :twisted:

by **fieldy snuts** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:22 pm

Wait....the final ep's of season 2 leaked? I'm only up to the Rulk one :smt013

by **Ol' Pointy Ears** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:51 pm

I have watched up to episode 22 of season 2 "Deadliest Man Alive", I have not been able to find anything beyond that yet, but I will.

by **Zechs** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:53 pm

fieldy snuts wrote:Wait....the final ep's of season 2 leaked? I'm only up to the Rulk one

Yup the last four episodes got leaked today. All written by the original show's writers and not a hint of Man of Action and a sprinkle of Loeb around (Bell appears in two episodes as Spider-Man).