Advertisement

OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Discuss the latest comic book news and front page articles, read or post your own reviews of comics, and talk about anything comic book related. Threads from the two subforums below will also show up here. News Stand topics can also be read and posted in from The Asylum.

Hey you! Reader! Want to be a part of the GREATEST COMIC BOOK AND GEEK COMMUNITY on the web?! Logged in users see WAY LESS ADS, so why not register? It's fast and it's easy, like your mom! Sign up today! Membership spots are limited!*

*Membership spots not really limited!

Victorian Squid
User avatar
YOU WILL NEED A NURSE
 
Posts: 31777
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 2 posts
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:04 am
Formerly: Schmormerly


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Victorian Squid » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:25 pm

Zechs wrote:
I agree. If the characters are to return let it be a team book or as Dustin Nguyen so much suggested:

Image

Add some appearances from Tim Drake and you know people will buy this book unless the creative team is sabotaged like the Batgirl vol. 2 mini with Adam Beechen on it.


And reboot Wally West as the world's fastest midget?

He looks like he's going to punch someone in the knees. :lol:
Last edited by Victorian Squid on Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Advertisement

Zechs
User avatar
Outhouse Editor
 
Posts: 43829
Likes: 120 posts
Liked in: 189 posts
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:10 pm
Location: From Parts Unknown
Title: Deposted Despot
Formerly: Blight, Deacon Frost, Heinrich Himmler of S_D


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Zechs » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:27 pm

McDarkseid wrote:
And reboot Wally West as the world's fastest midget?

Weird choice. :smt102


That's not Wally, that Colin from Nguyen/Dini's Streets of Gotham run. I was off and on that run but from what I could recall. Scarecrow injected a ton of venom into the kid.
Image
Image

Image


sdsichero wrote:
I especially like and admire Zechs. He's everything I wish I could be!

Dragavon wrote:Zechs... is...

Zechs...is...

I can't say it. It's too horrible. Zechs...is...not...wrong...

Victorian Squid
User avatar
YOU WILL NEED A NURSE
 
Posts: 31777
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 2 posts
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:04 am
Formerly: Schmormerly


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Victorian Squid » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:29 pm

No one knows who that is! :lol:

Zechs
User avatar
Outhouse Editor
 
Posts: 43829
Likes: 120 posts
Liked in: 189 posts
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:10 pm
Location: From Parts Unknown
Title: Deposted Despot
Formerly: Blight, Deacon Frost, Heinrich Himmler of S_D


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Zechs » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:31 pm

McDarkseid wrote:No one knows who that is! :lol:


I know but it's a pet character of Nguyen's. :smt102 I was just making the simple point that a team book could be done.
Image
Image

Image


sdsichero wrote:
I especially like and admire Zechs. He's everything I wish I could be!

Dragavon wrote:Zechs... is...

Zechs...is...

I can't say it. It's too horrible. Zechs...is...not...wrong...

David Bird
User avatar
phrase IV
 
Posts: 5834
Likes: 2 posts
Liked in: 9 posts
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:28 pm
Location: Victoria, BC


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby David Bird » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:14 pm

Punchy wrote:She's toxic because she's unnecessary. DC already has a Batgirl and a Batwoman, they don't need more.

And once again, her fanbase is not a female fanbase, most of her fans seem to be men.


This isn't remotely true. I can only assume you're basing your assessment on forums like this one, which seem to do little to attract or keep female fans. Steph and Cass have a lot of female fans. As a father raising a daughter up to be a comics fan, its a big plus in her favour.

I liked the article, the only thing I would argue with is the downplaying of sexism. I know its a topic many people [read: guys] are often uncomfortable with, but Didio and company seem to be going out of their way to alienate female readers. A non-Gotham example would be Starfire. Thanks to the Teen Titan cartoons she too has a lot of female fans, particularly young ones, but the skankover she got in the new 52 did not please many women.

I also don't agree that the idea she is toxic stems from the fans' devotion to her. Comic fans get angry about so many things, there's no reason to treat that aspect as any different. What is different is that this is the second time DC has done this to her. She was given the role of Robin, which gave her a validation that fit well with the character's over all development. Then she was tortured to death. Turns out that was the whole reason for making her Robin. To torture her to death. It was at that point she became a rallying point for women angered at the treatment of female characters. Then DC decided she wasn't dead after all. They even gave her her own title, albeit at the expense of another fan favorite. It seems there can be any number of Robins, but female fans get only one hero at a time. It was a good run. As anyone who bothered to actually read the comic would know, she wasn't just another Batgirl. Miller kept the personality of the character intact. (She is actually more like a female Peter Parker than any other character.) Then they got rid of her a second time. For no reason at all.

I also don't agree with the necessity of a 50,000 sales threshold. I can't believe they ever thought many of the titles they still print would sell 50,000. But fans don't need her to have her own title. They would be perfectly happy with her on team title, ideally with Cain. Actually, I think that would be the first choice of most of them.

One last point. While she was both Robin and Batgirl, she has her own persona. She's the Spoiler. Just as most fans don't need to see her headlining a title, most would happy with her being herself--the Spoiler.

The Old Doctor
User avatar
A Damn Cuddly Beast
 
Posts: 66974
Likes: 961 posts
Liked in: 712 posts
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: Toronto, ONT, Canadah
Formerly: /人 ◕ ‿‿ ◕ 人\


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby The Old Doctor » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:29 pm

I think it's stupidity to throw away any character.
"Why are you pointing your screwdrivers like that? They're scientific instruments, not water pistols."
"Oh, the pointing again! They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?"
"Are you capable of speaking without flapping your hands about?"
""Timey" what? "Timey wimey"?"

Image
IvCNuB4 wrote:The Old Doctor is Cat-Scratch ?
Well that explains a lot :lol:

Draco x
User avatar
FROGMAN
 
Posts: 8904
Likes: 1027 posts
Liked in: 281 posts
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:51 am


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Draco x » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:12 pm

The Nacireman wrote:
True.

DC's contempt for its fans has done plenty of damage to the company's reputation.


Really? And here I thought it was shitty marketing and incompetent business decisions all along.

Draco x
User avatar
FROGMAN
 
Posts: 8904
Likes: 1027 posts
Liked in: 281 posts
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:51 am


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Draco x » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:16 pm

In all fairness, Steph and Cass didn't get it as bad as Jean Paul Valley who got a shitty sendoff when his book ended, then got replaced with an even shittier stand-in that nobody acknowledges till this day and then made a brief appearance as an undead zombie for 3 panels. I could go on a rant about JPV but I already covered this before but I do think Steph and Cass aren't alone in getting the short-end of DC's biased crap-stick.

FotoCub
 
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 61 posts


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby FotoCub » Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:49 pm

I don't think of 50K as a maintainable theshold, just a launch threshold. Books that launch lower than that tend to end up circling the high teens within a year these days. Any book that settles into a 30K range would be very safe in this market, unless by comparison to its franchise a book is doing poorly, such as with Justice League International.

Punchy
User avatar
Staff Writer
 
Posts: 34421
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 65 posts
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:27 am
Location: UK
Title: Shitlord


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Punchy » Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:09 am

David Bird wrote:
This isn't remotely true. I can only assume you're basing your assessment on forums like this one, which seem to do little to attract or keep female fans. Steph and Cass have a lot of female fans.


Prove it.

habitual
User avatar
YOU WILL NEED A NURSE
 
Posts: 18649
Likes: 98 posts
Liked in: 149 posts
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:41 am
Location: The Rock of Eternity
Title: Habinger of Doom!


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby habitual » Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:22 am

Punchy wrote:
Prove it.


Jude has promised me he's saving a pair of his big boy pants for you.

You don't have the stones to question David Bird.

Hab

Zechs
User avatar
Outhouse Editor
 
Posts: 43829
Likes: 120 posts
Liked in: 189 posts
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:10 pm
Location: From Parts Unknown
Title: Deposted Despot
Formerly: Blight, Deacon Frost, Heinrich Himmler of S_D


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Zechs » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:31 am

draco x wrote:In all fairness, Steph and Cass didn't get it as bad as Jean Paul Valley who got a shitty sendoff when his book ended, then got replaced with an even shittier stand-in that nobody acknowledges till this day and then made a brief appearance as an undead zombie for 3 panels. I could go on a rant about JPV but I already covered this before but I do think Steph and Cass aren't alone in getting the short-end of DC's biased crap-stick.


True, but the character had an opening which DC just flat out closed on. A shame really.
Image
Image

Image


sdsichero wrote:
I especially like and admire Zechs. He's everything I wish I could be!

Dragavon wrote:Zechs... is...

Zechs...is...

I can't say it. It's too horrible. Zechs...is...not...wrong...

Zechs
User avatar
Outhouse Editor
 
Posts: 43829
Likes: 120 posts
Liked in: 189 posts
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:10 pm
Location: From Parts Unknown
Title: Deposted Despot
Formerly: Blight, Deacon Frost, Heinrich Himmler of S_D


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Zechs » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:33 am

Punchy wrote:
Prove it.


Scans Daily and DC Women Kicking Ass. All run by women. Guess who are in the top tags listed in one of them? If you answered Stephanie and Cassandra YOU ARE CORRECT SIR!
Image
Image

Image


sdsichero wrote:
I especially like and admire Zechs. He's everything I wish I could be!

Dragavon wrote:Zechs... is...

Zechs...is...

I can't say it. It's too horrible. Zechs...is...not...wrong...

David Bird
User avatar
phrase IV
 
Posts: 5834
Likes: 2 posts
Liked in: 9 posts
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:28 pm
Location: Victoria, BC


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby David Bird » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:14 am

Punchy wrote:
Prove it.


Having seen you give your opinion for years, I skeptical that any amount of proof would get you to change your mind, but the two sites Zechs mentioned would be a good place to start. There are lots of sites and many, many tumblr accounts that are made by and for female comics readers. It isn't hard to find them if you bother to look.

Draco x
User avatar
FROGMAN
 
Posts: 8904
Likes: 1027 posts
Liked in: 281 posts
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:51 am


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Draco x » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:16 am

Zechs wrote:
True, but the character had an opening which DC just flat out closed on. A shame really.


Exactly my point. The way they handled JPV, Steph, Cass, Wally and even Connor Hawke was a blatant middle finger to the fans. The reasons they have for excluding or even ignoring their existences reeks of personal prejudices and nothing else.

leave a comment with facebook

PreviousNext

Return to The News Stand



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: alijafferythehunk and 51 guests

Advertisement