Advertisement

OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Discuss the latest comic book news and front page articles, read or post your own reviews of comics, and talk about anything comic book related. Threads from the two subforums below will also show up here. News Stand topics can also be read and posted in from The Asylum.

Hey you! Reader! Want to be a part of the GREATEST COMIC BOOK AND GEEK COMMUNITY on the web?! Logged in users see WAY LESS ADS, so why not register? It's fast and it's easy, like your mom! Sign up today! Membership spots are limited!*

*Membership spots not really limited!

IvCNuB4
User avatar
Staff Writer
 
Posts: 10809
Likes: 447 posts
Liked in: 307 posts
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:51 am
Location: Chicago, IL
Title: Stop messing with my TITLE !


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby IvCNuB4 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:39 pm

Dear God. These are
fictional
fucking
characters.
They DON'T really exist. It cracks me up when fans claim that it's a personal attack on them or that something DC or Marvel did is a slap in the fans' faces ! Like I'm sure the head honchos at these companies sit in their state-of-the-art orbiting satellite meeting rooms twirling their mustaches and coming up with new ways to piss off people they've never even met :lol:

Bottom line, kids, any character they create is their property. They can do whatever they want with that character, whenever they want.

If you want to make a real difference, get off your virtual soapbox, go get a degree, polish up that resume, apply at these Companies, and hope you get hired so that someday you might actually be entitled to have a say in the matter.

In the meantime, you're not owed, entitled or deserving of anything :lol:
Victorian Squid wrote:In a DC/Marvel cross-over "all your favorite Marvel characters would catch contextually-transmitted diseases and Steph infections."

Advertisement

Zechs
User avatar
Outhouse Editor
 
Posts: 43807
Likes: 117 posts
Liked in: 177 posts
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:10 pm
Location: From Parts Unknown
Title: Deposted Despot
Formerly: Blight, Deacon Frost, Heinrich Himmler of S_D


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Zechs » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:41 pm

draco x wrote:
Exactly my point. The way they handled JPV, Steph, Cass, Wally and even Connor Hawke was a blatant middle finger to the fans. The reasons they have for excluding or even ignoring their existences reeks of personal prejudices and nothing else.


Well for JPV we all know the reason why. It's cause the character was co-created by Joe Quesada.
Image
Image

Image


sdsichero wrote:
I especially like and admire Zechs. He's everything I wish I could be!

Dragavon wrote:Zechs... is...

Zechs...is...

I can't say it. It's too horrible. Zechs...is...not...wrong...

Herald
User avatar
biny little tird
 
Posts: 12719
Likes: 164 posts
Liked in: 279 posts
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:47 pm
Title: Fun for the Whole Family!!


Online


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Herald » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:47 pm

FotoCub wrote:This is a very thoughtful article and a lot more reasoned than some debate I've seen on this topic. I do have to take point on your analysis of the sales however. Stephanie Brown's Batgirl book ended its run with a little over 22K issues at #24, not #12, which is where each of the other books mentioned are now. There's no guarantee these books are going to make it to 24, and I would argue - short of a miracle - they won't. We've already seen an art change on Batwing and a writer change on Stormwatch in an attempt to generate more positive sales. DC too showed a great deal of commitment to Stephanie's book by putting one of their superstar artists on the title, Dustin Nguyen, and sales still slumped. The sad thing is (and this is not unique to the New 52) if a book is short on sales, it won't get another shot right away, particularly for a more obscure character.


Tell that to Nu Beetle. His last book dragged itself over broken glass all the way down to 10,000 in sales. DC deliberately kept it going despite declining sales, all the way down there. And, despite that poor showing and subsequent cancellation, they still relaunched his book in the DCnU.

Of course, Stephanie Brown is not the company darling that DC is desperate to put over like Jaime Reyes is, so she didn't get the chance to drop all the way down to the basement like that, much less get another ongoing series regardless.

Stephanie may have a vocal fan base, but DC has no way of knowing how many people will buy her book EXCEPT from that last sales number. And they can't LAUNCH a book at 22K. Batwing, Stormwatch, all of these launched way higher than where they fell now. Double or more in some cases.


Stephanie didn't have the benefit of being launched during "The New 52!", in which every single title -- including the venerable Action Comics and Detective Comics -- was rebooted back to issue 1, with a massive, media-spanning advertising campaign backing it up. As those books you mentioned show, anything will sell well at first, given that enormous a push.

And given your argument here, they knew how many people would buy a Jaime Reyes series from the last sales number of his first series: 10,000. Notice how that didn't stop them from trying again, anyway...

AND how is DC (strictly from a sales standpoint) to know how many of those 22K readers were buying "Batgirl" or "Stephanie Brown AS Batgirl"? What if a quarter of them were simply Bat fans and wouldn't buy a SPOILER series? Now you're down to a 17K launch. Can you see how this could be a problem?My hope is that Stephanie does come back, either in a supporting role or even in a title of her own, but when she does, her fans MUST be ready to support the book in HUGE numbers. If it doesn't launch at over 50K right away, it's not going to last long, statistically speaking.


Again, Steph won't have the once-in-a-lifetime chance to launch as part of a company-wide reboot back to issue 1, with a massive, media-spanning advertising campaign backing her up. The comparison is hardly fair or balanced.

Also, let's see how long Jaime Reyes's second series lasts, statistically speaking...

And if she's had TWO tries at the rodeo and not sold well, EEK. There will be plenty of reason to call her "toxic" then. :-(


So, when does the aforementioned editorial favorite, Nu Beetle, get his "toxic" label, then?? This is his second "rodeo", and he's been roped and branded even more quickly than last time. I'm absolutely sure he'll NEVER get that label.

There is a blatant bias at DC, make no mistake about it.

Herald
User avatar
biny little tird
 
Posts: 12719
Likes: 164 posts
Liked in: 279 posts
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:47 pm
Title: Fun for the Whole Family!!


Online


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Herald » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:52 pm

IvCNuB4 wrote:Dear God. These are
fictional
fucking
characters.


...he said, despite repeatedly visiting a website whose main reason for existing is for people to spend time and energy discussing these
fictional
fucking
characters.

:roll:

If you don't think comic book characters are worth so much discussion, why are you on a comic book message board??

"We're ALL mad here.
You must be mad, or you wouldn't have come here."

Herald
User avatar
biny little tird
 
Posts: 12719
Likes: 164 posts
Liked in: 279 posts
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:47 pm
Title: Fun for the Whole Family!!


Online


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Herald » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:57 pm

The Nacireman wrote:
True.

DC's contempt for its fans has done plenty of damage to the company's reputation.


draco x wrote:Really? And here I thought it was shitty marketing and incompetent business decisions all along.


You're both right.
It's their signature hat trick.

IvCNuB4
User avatar
Staff Writer
 
Posts: 10809
Likes: 447 posts
Liked in: 307 posts
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:51 am
Location: Chicago, IL
Title: Stop messing with my TITLE !


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby IvCNuB4 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:10 pm

He Whose Name Must Not Be Repeated wrote:
...he said, despite repeatedly visiting a website whose main reason for existing is for people to spend time and energy discussing these
fictional
fucking
characters.

:roll:

If you don't think comic book characters are worth so much discussion, why are you on a comic book message board??

"We're ALL mad here.
You must be mad, or you wouldn't have come here."


Discussion is one thing. Irrational ranting and pointless "rising up" out of some self-induced feeling of entitlement is Fan Dumb.


:P
Last edited by IvCNuB4 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Victorian Squid wrote:In a DC/Marvel cross-over "all your favorite Marvel characters would catch contextually-transmitted diseases and Steph infections."

Timbales
User avatar
Fisty McDigger
 
Posts: 16897
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 2 posts
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:29 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY USA
Title: Namaste, mother fucker
Formerly: timberoo


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Timbales » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:13 pm

I am seeing that comic book fans are a lot like music fans.

They seem to lock onto the music/comics of their mid to late teens and view that as "when it was good".
However, Liefeld is an enigma wrapped in a pouch-filled, muscular, footless conundrum.
Written or Contributed by ThanosCopter

Zechs
User avatar
Outhouse Editor
 
Posts: 43807
Likes: 117 posts
Liked in: 177 posts
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:10 pm
Location: From Parts Unknown
Title: Deposted Despot
Formerly: Blight, Deacon Frost, Heinrich Himmler of S_D


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Zechs » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:13 pm

IvCNuB4 wrote:
Discussion is one thing. Irrational ranting and pointless "rising up" out of some self-induced feeling of entitlement is Fan Dumb.


:P


I was going to reply but now I'm just gonna go.. DAAAMN!!! :shock: :lol:
Image
Image

Image


sdsichero wrote:
I especially like and admire Zechs. He's everything I wish I could be!

Dragavon wrote:Zechs... is...

Zechs...is...

I can't say it. It's too horrible. Zechs...is...not...wrong...

Herald
User avatar
biny little tird
 
Posts: 12719
Likes: 164 posts
Liked in: 279 posts
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:47 pm
Title: Fun for the Whole Family!!


Online


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Herald » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:18 pm

IvCNuB4 wrote:
Discussion is one thing. Irrational ranting and pointless "rising up" out of some self-induced feeling of entitlement is Fan Dumb.


:P


As expected, you are Comically Missing The Point.

You're just Complaining About People Not Liking The Show. The fact of the matter is that they are allowed to petition for more/better use of their favorite characters.

It's called Freedom of Expression; look into it. :P :P

Grayson
User avatar
Outhouse Drafter
 
Posts: 8306
Likes: 459 posts
Liked in: 845 posts
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:34 am
Location: The Darkest Timeline
Title: The Intersect
Formerly: Sakie


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Grayson » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:20 pm

Timbales wrote:I am seeing that comic book fans are a lot like music fans.

They seem to lock onto the music/comics of their mid to late teens and view that as "when it was good".


Dear God, I have never understood that logic. I was a teenager in the late 90's/early 00's and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the music of that time period was absolutely terrible...and for the most part it has only gotten worse.

But I see the point that you are trying to make. ;-)

Herald
User avatar
biny little tird
 
Posts: 12719
Likes: 164 posts
Liked in: 279 posts
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:47 pm
Title: Fun for the Whole Family!!


Online


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Herald » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:25 pm

IvCNuB4 wrote:If you want to make a real difference, get off your virtual soapbox, go get a degree, polish up that resume, apply at these Companies, and hope you get hired so that someday you might actually be entitled to have a say in the matter.


And before you reply, TRY this time to steer clear of the typical last refuge of the offended-on-behalf-of-the-company-they-don't-even-work-for: "Let's See You Do Better!" :P :P :P

SilverPhoenix
User avatar
Staff Writer
 
Posts: 1649
Likes: 1 post
Liked in: 0 post
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:28 pm
Title: Harbinger of the Ponypocalyse
Formerly: Lord Solaris, Discord


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby SilverPhoenix » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:38 pm

IvCNuB4 wrote:If you want to make a real difference, get off your virtual soapbox, go get a degree, polish up that resume, apply at these Companies, and hope you get hired so that someday you might actually be entitled to have a say in the matter.


Let me do you one better. If I have the talent to actually work on a story, why in the bloody fuck would I play in a sandbox that's designed to only benefit characters that can sell T-Shirts at the expense of characters that can still have a story told about them?

It's stuff like this that makes Marvel and DC unappealing to work for. Sorry, but there isn't a damn thing I can add to Batman's Mythos, especially if I have to tell the story using Bruce Wayne. I rather create my original works and let their fate be decided by the public.

Herald
User avatar
biny little tird
 
Posts: 12719
Likes: 164 posts
Liked in: 279 posts
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:47 pm
Title: Fun for the Whole Family!!


Online


Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Herald » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:44 pm

SilverPhoenix wrote:
Let me do you one better. If I have the talent to actually work on a story, why in the bloody fuck would I play in a sandbox that's designed to only benefit characters that can sell T-Shirts at the expense of characters that can still have a story told about them?


I believe that the lesser-used characters hold more promise. Frankly, I'd rather write Batgirl Cass Cain than Batman Bruce Wayne.

bkthomson
User avatar
YOU WILL NEED A NURSE
 
Posts: 23394
Likes: 7 posts
Liked in: 34 posts
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:14 pm
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Title: Invisible Man of the Outhouse


Re: Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby bkthomson » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:51 pm

Herald wrote:
I believe that the lesser-used characters hold more promise. Frankly, I'd rather write Batgirl Cass Cain than Batman Bruce Wayne.


No one wants to read your porn fiction.
I used to have goals. They were evil goals, but they were goals. -- Dr. Heinz Doofenshmirtz

Dragavon wrote:He's being diplomatic again. :lol:

Zechs wrote:I have to repress you more. You're way too goodie two shoes.

Fat Ollie Weeks wrote:I swear to God, you are so boring sometimes I think you're just a stealth-mod-bot that Jude has coded.

Herald
User avatar
biny little tird
 
Posts: 12719
Likes: 164 posts
Liked in: 279 posts
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:47 pm
Title: Fun for the Whole Family!!


Online


Re: Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Herald » Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:00 pm

bkthomson wrote:
No one wants to read your porn fiction.


The fact that you suggested PORN fiction says that you do. :P

leave a comment with facebook

PreviousNext

Return to The News Stand



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Demarcoa, Yahoo [Bot] and 109 guests

Advertisement