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OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby IvCNuB4 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:02 pm

SilverPhoenix wrote: I rather create my original works and let their fate be decided by the public.


Okay, now that I totally agree with and support for folks to try.
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Victorian Squid wrote:In a DC/Marvel cross-over "all your favorite Marvel characters would catch contextually-transmitted diseases and Steph infections."

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Zechs » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:42 pm

SilverPhoenix wrote:
Let me do you one better. If I have the talent to actually work on a story, why in the bloody fuck would I play in a sandbox that's designed to only benefit characters that can sell T-Shirts at the expense of characters that can still have a story told about them?

It's stuff like this that makes Marvel and DC unappealing to work for. Sorry, but there isn't a damn thing I can add to Batman's Mythos, especially if I have to tell the story using Bruce Wayne. I rather create my original works and let their fate be decided by the public.


Very true. During the late 90s and even into a bit of the early 00s it was awesome to work at DC. But now since they've brought over their 90s Marvel talent it's totally botched anything positive.
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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Draco x » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:53 pm

Zechs wrote:
Well for JPV we all know the reason why. It's cause the character was co-created by Joe Quesada.


So I have been hearing but the thing is that Denny O Neil was the one who created JPV and I get the impression that Denny O Neil is actually respected at DC for the most part.

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Keb » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:53 pm

IvCNuB4 wrote:Dear God. These are
fictional
fucking
characters.
They DON'T really exist. It cracks me up when fans claim that it's a personal attack on them or that something DC or Marvel did is a slap in the fans' faces ! Like I'm sure the head honchos at these companies sit in their state-of-the-art orbiting satellite meeting rooms twirling their mustaches and coming up with new ways to piss off people they've never even met :lol:

Bottom line, kids, any character they create is their property. They can do whatever they want with that character, whenever they want.

If you want to make a real difference, get off your virtual soapbox, go get a degree, polish up that resume, apply at these Companies, and hope you get hired so that someday you might actually be entitled to have a say in the matter.

In the meantime, you're not owed, entitled or deserving of anything :lol:

I don't know why you have to pray about it, but I agree.

Stop buying the company's product, get an outlet that the company will take note of (like writing for the OH) and start making the company notice. Like what TC did.

If not, make your own art.

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Draco x » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:54 pm

Herald wrote:
Tell that to Nu Beetle. His last book dragged itself over broken glass all the way down to 10,000 in sales. DC deliberately kept it going despite declining sales, all the way down there. And, despite that poor showing and subsequent cancellation, they still relaunched his book in the DCnU.

Of course, Stephanie Brown is not the company darling that DC is desperate to put over like Jaime Reyes is, so she didn't get the chance to drop all the way down to the basement like that, much less get another ongoing series regardless.



Stephanie didn't have the benefit of being launched during "The New 52!", in which every single title -- including the venerable Action Comics and Detective Comics -- was rebooted back to issue 1, with a massive, media-spanning advertising campaign backing it up. As those books you mentioned show, anything will sell well at first, given that enormous a push.

And given your argument here, they knew how many people would buy a Jaime Reyes series from the last sales number of his first series: 10,000. Notice how that didn't stop them from trying again, anyway...



Again, Steph won't have the once-in-a-lifetime chance to launch as part of a company-wide reboot back to issue 1, with a massive, media-spanning advertising campaign backing her up. The comparison is hardly fair or balanced.

Also, let's see how long Jaime Reyes's second series lasts, statistically speaking...



So, when does the aforementioned editorial favorite, Nu Beetle, get his "toxic" label, then?? This is his second "rodeo", and he's been roped and branded even more quickly than last time. I'm absolutely sure he'll NEVER get that label.

There is a blatant bias at DC, make no mistake about it.


Jaime Reyes is the Hispanic version of Peter Parker over DC.

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Draco x » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:56 pm

Herald wrote:


You're both right.
It's their signature hat trick.


That's one thing you can give DC credit for is how consistent they are in fucking themselves over and over. The Shit-For-Brains syndrome knows no limits.

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Draco x » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:57 pm

Sakie wrote:
Dear God, I have never understood that logic. I was a teenager in the late 90's/early 00's and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the music of that time period was absolutely terrible...and for the most part it has only gotten worse.

But I see the point that you are trying to make. ;-)


This.

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Herald » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:05 pm

Keb wrote:Stop buying the company's product


Done and done! 8)

get an outlet that the company will take note of (like writing for the OH)


So much for "an outlet that the company will take note of", huh?? :P

and start making the company notice. Like what TC did.


I'm WAY ahead of you there! 8)
Last edited by Herald on Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Herald » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:07 pm

draco x wrote:
So I have been hearing but the thing is that Denny O Neil was the one who created JPV and I get the impression that Denny O Neil is actually respected at DC for the most part.


To be fair, both O'Neil and Quesada share the credit.

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Draco x » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:11 pm

Herald wrote:
To be fair, both O'Neil and Quesada share the credit.


Which I am very grateful for by the way. As much as I don't like some of the decisions that Quesada has made at Marvel, I will always give him props for co-creating one of my favorite characters. I just wish that Didio's idiotic biases hadn't fucked up JPV's chance to return to the bat-books. As we both know, nobody gave a rat's ass about the Michael Lane Azrael who they forced down our throats.

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Zechs » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:13 pm

draco x wrote:
So I have been hearing but the thing is that Denny O Neil was the one who created JPV and I get the impression that Denny O Neil is actually respected at DC for the most part.


True and really O'Neill was the only one who did the ongoing. Maybe DC feels like Jack Knight, the only one who should write that character is the creator.
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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Draco x » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:56 pm

Zechs wrote:
True and really O'Neill was the only one who did the ongoing. Maybe DC feels like Jack Knight, the only one who should write that character is the creator.


So some people have said but the part where JPV is blatantly ignored in the bat-books looks suspect and the part where he reappeared as a Black Lantern zombie felt like a fuck-you to the fans who wanted him back. I believe that Denny had intened for JPV's fate at the end of his book to be left open for him to return. I remember someone saying that Denny O Neill was told by Didio that he wanted to kill off JPV originally and that he told him that he needed the character to disappear. As I said, Denny most likely wanted to leave an open door for JPV to return but Didio and co. had other ideas.

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Victorian Squid » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:01 pm

I can't remember exactly what JPV actually stands for anymore (jean paul something?), but I read those old comics with him in them a couple years ago when I bought up the stock of a dead comic shop and honestly, his story seemed done and over. He seems absolutely to be a character who had a time on the stage and that came to an end a long time ago.

Personally, I thought it to be an easily forgettable character.

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Herald » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:02 pm

McDarkseid wrote:I can't remember what JPV actually stands for anymore


Jean Paul Valley.

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Victorian Squid » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:04 pm

Herald wrote:
Jean Paul Valley.


Ah yes, I was getting there. I remembered Jean Paul, then thought wait that's from Alpha Flight, then reconsidered, and was almost to the Valley.

I just felt like his time has come and gone. There are so many other newer supporting characters for Batman, and I just don't think Azrael has the staying power. Seems so '90s.

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