Strict31 wrote:That's the thing: you only see this stuff about honor and sacrifice from the EU sources. The authors have a love affair with these cats that pretty much started with the 501st (IRL). It is the EU that has romanticized the idea of clone troopers.
And the way I figure it, portraying these guys as unique individuals, each with deeper motivations and feelings of their own kinda stands in direct opposition to the idea of an army of clones in the first place.
I mean, how much of a well-developed personality can you instill in a person who has been accelerated to adulthood in a matter of weeks? Or months? They might as well have just held open recruiting for all the benefit they gained from clones. I mean, hell, Green Berets and SEALs seem just as combat effective, if not moreso, and we don't need to clone them.
But in the movies, they seem to have little personal initiative at all, beyond what is practical on the battlefield, so as not to interfere with their programming. I understand there was a cut scene in which Cody attempts to refuse Order 66, but that ended up on the floor and is not canon.
So basically, EU sources try to tell us that these guys are not only totally likeable despite the horrible things they've done, but also that they have complete free will, except when they don't.
Way I figure it, they need to shit or get off the pot.
I get your point, but where unique souls are individual personalities will emerge.
Usually it's the Jedis individualizing the clones more than the clones [individualizing] themselves. That was the point of the Yoda scene I mentioned as my favorite -- he was trying to convince them that they were unique individuals despite most (obvious) evidence to the contrary.
I think this behavior is consistent w/ Jedi motivations, but maybe that's just me (and George
Sidenote: Do you believe in Souls, Strict31? If so, do you believe clones would have unique/individual ones?
I also take issue w/ your assertion that the clones are unlikeable because, as soldiers, they followed orders. That is what most soldiers do, even non-clone ones. And on the scale of German soldiers carrying out Nazi horrors, I'd argue the clones had virtually zero free will by comparison.
As to the movies, Lucas always cuts 'em down to the bare bones. Are the scenes he adds to the dvds canon? They weren't in the original theatrical release.
Even if one wants to argue the free will point, I'd say,
1) their psychological identities are super immature - clearly enough to make them barely responsible for any actions deemed 'their own'. Sorta like juvenile law making distinctions for immature minds.
2) the clones were never meant to be more than cheap substitutes for thinking/learning machines on the battlefield.
Of course they would need to do some
thinking for themselves... even Terminators enjoy operational autonomy as long as they're ultimately in pursuit/service of their primary directives. I think that's the whole point of employing thinking computers.