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[Strict31]

When McCain ran against Dubya, the con5ervative press was much more vicious. McCain was accused of being a Manchurian candidate, his wife was accused of having a drug habit, and he was accused of fathering a illegitimate child.

The thing was, the guys who helped engineer the smear campaign against McCain when he ran the first time were the same guys he hired to run his campign this time around. What worked for them in 2000 and 2004 failed this time around. According to Palin, they are the primary reason she was mishandled. And when we saw the fracturing of McCain's campaign towards the final few weeks, they were again at the center of it.

I do not believe it was McCain who lost the election. Certainly, he made the choice to bring on Schmidt and the old Rove gang. But I think these guys tried to turn him into something he simply never was.

And the fucked up thing is, it wasn't the liberal media that was responsible for this shit. It was conservatives. When you got guys like Bill Kristol turning against you, that's not due to the influence of the liberal media. When you got guys like David Frum talking about how the republican party needs to find a new way...to muthafuckin Rachel Maddow, for christ's sake, the problems are not owned by the media.

But let's be honest about something else: conservatives were never truly stoked by McCain in the first place. They can attempt to turn it around on the media all they want. But they didn't rally 'round the nom with the gusto they needed. I mean, he came out of the nomination with a hell of a lot of clear road ahead of him. The Democrats were still dusting it up rather nastily, and all McCain had to do was sit back, let the sparks fly, and build up his own capital. But he left a bad taste in the mouths of conservatives that wasn't cleared until palin came on board. And at many McCain/Palin rallies, people were there to see her.

That was fucked up.

And how many conservatives were pleased to see McCain supporting the bail out. Milton doesn't like to be called a conservative, but that guy was livid. And when he says he didn't vote for McCain, I find myself wondering why.

Was it because of that no-good liberal media and how hard they were sucking Obama's peen? Or was it because of...something else? He's not unique. How in the fuck could Obama have on Ohio otherwise?

Conservatives abandoned McCain. Not all of them. But too many.

[Doc Jon]

I see your points, although I disagree with some of them.

1. Obama is a media darling. I don't know if anyone has disputed that. I've stated it over and over since before the election.

2. Palin becoming hated was her fault. You can point to media bias (and maybe you're right), but I see it differently. No one cared about the Trig thing. That barely got any 'real' news coverage. The only times I heard about it in the mainstream media was when they talked about how absurd the accusation was.

Her daughter being pregnant while in high school is supposed to be a non-issue? Palin was brought onto the ticket to secure the far right. She preaches about family values. I don't think it was a major issue, but it deserved attention. If Obama had a 16 year old daughter who was pregnant during the election, you better believe it would have gotten news coverage, and not favorable coverage at that.

Troopergate. Was this supposed to be a non-issue as well? She ran for governor on a platform that she would help weed out corruption in Alaska. The fact that she could have been found abusing her gubernatorial powers is definitely an issue. Hypocrisy for the second time.

The bridge to nowhere. This was utter stupidity. It was Palin and McCain that made this a national issue by placing it in their ads. Her record (and support for it) were a matter of public record. Was the media supposed to ignore it? Hypocrisy for the third time.

But you know what? That shit didn't even matter. No one really cared about those stories. Her one biggest failing was the Couric interview. That was disastrous on so many levels, I can barely express it in words.

That's when the media really jumped on her, and it was her own damn fault. By many accounts, she didn't prepare for the interview. I watched the entire thing, and with the exception of a couple questions, a kid on a high school debate team could have answered those questions with greater intelligence.

[Strict31]

The Republicans hyped up the scandals, but it didn't seem to go beyond them other than Olberman raising hell about the nerve of those people to dare say anything bad.

The Muslim thing was an issue briefly, then openly mocked. I think he was a Muslim, and I'm 100% OK with him being Muslim and being President... I don't care. I do care if he's lying about it, even if it was in the past. I know his motivation for joining *A* Church was more political initially, but beyond that I can't tell if he has real faith from the contradictory things he's said about the Bible.

The issues with Wright were scandal-worthy, absolutely. Had McCain gone to a Euro-Centric Church that promoted White Values ONE TIME... well you have just stopped right there, never recorded the preacher on some racist tirade, much less spent 20 years there... he'd be buried and people would still be hating him. Not Obama, it's not an issue.

There were two gay men from Obama's Church murdered execution-style just weeks apart who were claiming links to Obama, but the media didn't bother to cover that. Whether Obama had anything to do with it or not (and I will say he did not), given the coverage of the Church, you would THINK this would be newsworthy, but it wasn't.

And I honestly do not see how anyone who lived through 2008 could not see how the media portrayed Obama in a very positive light compared to everyone else. There were newscasters literally gushing over him, saying they felt 'electrified', and even FoxNews called him the next JFK early on.

Bottom line, I have my opinion on this based on what I saw. I did not support McCain, and I certainly wasn't keen on 4-8 more years of Bush policy. Yet I still saw an overwhelming amount of favoritism for Obama, and a disproportionate amount of hate for Palin. I still do. Period.

My biggest concern isn't with Obama himself. It's with his supporters. I fear we will see a Democrat version of the blind faith given to Bush. Despite the fact that Democrats HATED that, screamed out against the idiocy of it, they didn't learn a damn thing from it. Considering the condition our country is in, it's absolutely sickening the amount of praise being given to an untested leader.

Wait...you think Obama was a muslim?

Seriously...?

Now, i know you voted for Obama, not McCain, but what did you think about McCain embracing evangelists he'd previously decried as agents of intolerance when they attacked him previously? The same agents of intolerance who blamed 9/11 on gays? You know, that never got any traction in the press. it was mentioned, but waved off because--I believe the argument was--because he didn't sit in a church with these guys for 20 years.

But he did know about their intolerant views and welcomed their support....because he needed the religious right, of course. But still.

Do you feel the press was being fair or biased by letting that story fall by the wayside?

[Thunderstorm]

I see your points, although I disagree with some of them.

1. Obama is a media darling. I don't know if anyone has disputed that. I've stated it over and over since before the election.

2. Palin becoming hated was her fault. You can point to media bias (and maybe you're right), but I see it differently. No one cared about the Trig thing. That barely got any 'real' news coverage. The only times I heard about it in the mainstream media was when they talked about how absurd the accusation was.

Her daughter being pregnant while in high school is supposed to be a non-issue? Palin was brought onto the ticket to secure the far right. She preaches about family values. I don't think it was a major issue, but it deserved attention. If Obama had a 16 year old daughter who was pregnant during the election, you better believe it would have gotten news coverage, and not favorable coverage at that.

Troopergate. Was this supposed to be a non-issue as well? She ran for governor on a platform that she would help weed out corruption in Alaska. The fact that she could have been found abusing her gubernatorial powers is definitely an issue. Hypocrisy for the second time.

The bridge to nowhere. This was utter stupidity. It was Palin and McCain that made this a national issue by placing it in their ads. Her record (and support for it) were a matter of public record. Was the media supposed to ignore it? Hypocrisy for the third time.

But you know what? That shit didn't even matter. No one really cared about those stories. Her one biggest failing was the Couric interview. That was disastrous on so many levels, I can barely express it in words.

That's when the media really jumped on her, and it was her own damn fault. By many accounts, she didn't prepare for the interview. I watched the entire thing, and with the exception of a couple questions, a kid on a high school debate team could have answered those questions with greater intelligence.

That's cool. He is a media darling, and at a time like this it worries me a lot. I hope he does a lot of good, but damn, let him do it.

And Strict, I agree about McCain. I still do not know one Conservative who ever liked him. Even the talk radio Conservatives hated him, and spent more time bashing him than Obama in some cases. Though I think after 8 years of Bush, it would have been very hard to elect another Republican to office this time around.

[Doc Jon]

I do not believe it was McCain who lost the election. Certainly, he made the choice to bring on Schmidt and the old Rove gang. But I think these guys tried to turn him into something he simply never was.

I agree with most of what you said, but I'm only quoting this part.

I completely agree that the McCain we saw on the campaign was not the 'real' McCain. He never really felt like he had his heart in it. At best the campaign was a confused mess that had no clear message.

When McCain held that townhall meeting where he found himself defending Obama and getting booed by his own 'supprters', you know you fucked up somewhere.

[Doc Jon]

That's cool. He is a media darling, and at a time like this it worries me a lot. I hope he does a lot of good, but damn, let him do it.

That's cool. I understand your concerns (the cult of personality and all that), but I really do believe that most people are realistic about what Obama can accomplish.

This honeymoon won't last forever, and there will be more than enough hate concerning Obama to go around. People are going to love tearing him down just like they loved building him up.

I almost feel sorry for him because I think he can do a lot of good, and I think there will be many times when he wishes he had not won.

[Strict31]

I see your points, although I disagree with some of them.

1. Obama is a media darling. I don't know if anyone has disputed that. I've stated it over and over since before the election.

2. Palin becoming hated was her fault. You can point to media bias (and maybe you're right), but I see it differently. No one cared about the Trig thing. That barely got any 'real' news coverage. The only times I heard about it in the mainstream media was when they talked about how absurd the accusation was.

Her daughter being pregnant while in high school is supposed to be a non-issue? Palin was brought onto the ticket to secure the far right. She preaches about family values. I don't think it was a major issue, but it deserved attention. If Obama had a 16 year old daughter who was pregnant during the election, you better believe it would have gotten news coverage, and not favorable coverage at that.

Troopergate. Was this supposed to be a non-issue as well? She ran for governor on a platform that she would help weed out corruption in Alaska. The fact that she could have been found abusing her gubernatorial powers is definitely an issue. Hypocrisy for the second time.

The bridge to nowhere. This was utter stupidity. It was Palin and McCain that made this a national issue by placing it in their ads. Her record (and support for it) were a matter of public record. Was the media supposed to ignore it? Hypocrisy for the third time.

But you know what? That shit didn't even matter. No one really cared about those stories. Her one biggest failing was the Couric interview. That was disastrous on so many levels, I can barely express it in words.

That's when the media really jumped on her, and it was her own damn fault. By many accounts, she didn't prepare for the interview. I watched the entire thing, and with the exception of a couple questions, a kid on a high school debate team could have answered those questions with greater intelligence.

By most accounts it was the guys running the campaign who not only kept her sequestered from the press for so long, but mishandled her preperation for the press. And to add insult to injury, it was these guys leaking complaints about palin to the media. Remember that shit about her not knowing some basic shit about Africa? I mean, like her, love her or hate her, you ain't getting through high school and college without knowing at least some basic geography. Such as "Africa is the big thing over thataway."

Don't nobody give a shit about the Bush Doctrine, but these guys should have made sure she was briefed on this shit nonetheless. I don't wanna take too much fault away from her, but the contributions toward failure made by Schmidt and his crew of flunkies cannot be minimized here. They did a disservive to the ticket. Period.

With regards to her daughter, I think she has a right to expect the opposing candidate won't start fucking with her kids, no matter how she presents them in the campaign. What I think is open season is the contradiction between her value system and the whole unwed teen thang. You don't really have to criticize her kid directly to bring that point up.

Troopergate was never gonna have much traction. Perhaps it should have, but it dragged on too long, and only developed after palin already had her second wind. Press is ADD.

[Thunderstorm]

Wait...you think Obama was a muslim?

Seriously...?

Now, i know you voted for Obama, not McCain, but what did you think about McCain embracing evangelists he'd previously decried as agents of intolerance when they attacked him previously? The same agents of intolerance who blamed 9/11 on gays? You know, that never got any traction in the press. it was mentioned, but waved off because--I believe the argument was--because he didn't sit in a church with these guys for 20 years.

But he did know about their intolerant views and welcomed their support....because he needed the religious right, of course. But still.

Do you feel the press was being fair or biased by letting that story fall by the wayside?

Yeah I do believe Obama WAS a Muslim, not IS. And please understand I do not find fault with that at all, I do not think the American Media interpretation of the Quran is anything close to accurate. I also don't think that Evangelicals are in any way representative of Christianity, despite the medias insistence that this is the face of Christianity. I've read both books and find them complimentary rather than adversarial.

And I rarely think the Press is fair. I'd say it's always biased, but not necessarily always Liberally biased. There's always a right and a wrong for each side, and if were truly objective, you wouldn't have that. Stewart and Couler, and Olberman and O'Rilley... same shit, different sides. If the media would focus on the middle, you wouldn't have such a huge split.

[Strict31]

And Strict, I agree about McCain. I still do not know one Conservative who ever liked him. Even the talk radio Conservatives hated him, and spent more time bashing him than Obama in some cases. Though I think after 8 years of Bush, it would have been very hard to elect another Republican to office this time around.

Well, I gotta say this: if McCain had won the nom in 2000, I was actually considering voting for the dude. I was rooting for him to win the Repub nom this time around. But that was before Schmidt and the gang, the guys who swiftboated him in 2000, and were now on his team.

That might not be good news for conservatives to hear, because it still speaks of a republican nominee who has more appeal to dems and libs than conservatives. But I think if he had presented himself in the same straight talk express manner as 2000, he would have gotten more swing votes and conservative democrats. I don't realistically think he would have won, but it still would have sent a message to the republican party, just as kerry's defeat sent a message to the Democratic party in 2004.

[Doc Jon]

Yeah I do believe Obama WAS a Muslim, not IS. And please understand I do not find fault with that at all, I do not think the American Media interpretation of the Quran is anything close to accurate. I also don't think that Evangelicals are in any way representative of Christianity, despite the medias insistence that this is the face of Christianity. I've read both books and find them complimentary rather than adversarial.

And I rarely think the Press is fair. I'd say it's always biased, but not necessarily always Liberally biased. There's always a right and a wrong for each side, and if were truly objective, you wouldn't have that. Stewart and Couler, and Olberman and O'Rilley... same shit, different sides. If the media would focus on the middle, you wouldn't have such a huge split.

Yeah, I getcha.

I wish the Iraq War was covered 'fairly', rather than the smoke that's been blown up our asses for years.

It does go both ways. The mainstream media is definitely leaning to the left at the moment, no doubt about it.

[Strict31]

Yeah I do believe Obama WAS a Muslim, not IS. And please understand I do not find fault with that at all, I do not think the American Media interpretation of the Quran is anything close to accurate. I also don't think that Evangelicals are in any way representative of Christianity, despite the medias insistence that this is the face of Christianity. I've read both books and find them complimentary rather than adversarial.

And I rarely think the Press is fair. I'd say it's always biased, but not necessarily always Liberally biased. There's always a right and a wrong for each side, and if were truly objective, you wouldn't have that. Stewart and Couler, and Olberman and O'Rilley... same shit, different sides. If the media would focus on the middle, you wouldn't have such a huge split.

You're including Jon Stewart among journalists, here? If so, you know that McCain was a welcomed guest who appeared on Stewart's show more than any other candidate, dem or republican? O'reilly could barely seem to allow obama to even answer his questions.

But even so.

I think a large part of that split is manufactured. i guess I keep harping on CNN, but I think they do the best job of being fair and balanced among the three 24 hour newsnets. Dobbs never let up on Obama and gave quite a warm reception to Coulter.

hell, warmer than O'Reilly did, in fact.

MSNBC makes for an easy target, although with Morning Joe failing to have a corresponding counterpart on Fox, I think they make up a little bit for Olberman.

I mean, if we really look at these guys, without our own biases coloring our views, we'll see less of a left-leaning slant than some of us like to contend. We hear Limbaugh and Hannity going on about liberal bias in the media, and some folks out there take it as gospel without checking for themselves.

And then again, why would they? Worldviews do not shift easily. Or, sometimes, at all.

[S.F. Jude Terror]

You've categorized yourself. Ain't nobody here putting any words into your mouth. For instance, nobody's forcing you to repeatedly make threads that flaime Obama or liberals, right? I mean, if you're neither a conservative nor a liberal, then occassionally, you might consider spamming the board with threads that aren't so vociferously anti-liberal.

And yes, I understand your explanation that you're only anti-liberal because you're so often exposed to them. I find that to be innately fallacious logic, because finding non-liberal sources is as easy as flipping the channel to fox or to Limbaugh.

I find it hard to believe that entire hosts of liberal activists are marching louldy past your door with any greater regularity than they employ anywhere else in the country. So avoiding them is as easy as changing the fucking channel.

Hell, I probably listen to conservative programming more than you do. I once forced myself to sit through an entire episode of hannity's radio show. It was all the way live.

With the notable exception of, say the Travelling Vinny Show, the person here who is most responsible for thrusting Obama into our faces is you. And vinny's not even around here that much. This shit would be hilariously ironic, given the basis of your beef with liberals, being obnoxious and what-not.

If you want to play the villain and draw strife onto yourself, start a thread about how Superman eats all the dicks for a change. or point out how you find it amusing that George Lucas happily flosses the plaque off his ass with the hopes and dreams of over-the-hill fanboys. Even the conservatives on the board get tired of seeing all the Obama threads.

But seriously, Jude, you have some very simple and basic solutions to your concerns.

--If you don't want to be blasted with what you perceive to be liberal viewpoints all the time, watch or listen to some prgramming with conservative bias instead.

--If you don't want anyone to label you as a conservative, it might behoove you to ease up on repeatedly spewing the party line.

Of the five or six Obama threads on the front page last night, I started one of them - a joke thread comparing Obama to Hitler.

It's not "just as easy" to avoid liberal propaganda, because yes, I could choose to listen to Rush and watch Fox News all day, if all I was interested in was political talk. But liberal propaganda is subtly there in everything else. For instance, when I turn on Comedy Central, I AM reading the channel description correctly, right? It is a "comedy" channel, not leftist political talk? Because it doesn't seem like it.

So I guess what you're saying is that non-liberals don't have a right to be entertained? We should only watch or listen to conservative political talk radio or Fox News - everything else is off limits? Because you can't watch comedy or, for instance, listen to music, without having some crap shoved down your throat.

This is my problem - the liberal message is entrenched in our society in very subtle ways, but it is highly obnoxious when you recognize it. Take comic books for instance. You wouldn't call comic books blatant propaganda. After all, they're loudly printing VOTE OBAMA, VOTE DEMOCRAT on the covers. But when you have Bush appear in a story here or there, and he's a sniveling coward, or a madman, and then you have Obama appear as a hero with Spiderman, it's sending a subtle message: liberals are good, conservatives are bad. It's not an overt message, it's just treated as if these are the facts. It's taken for granted that everyone agrees with it. And I find that insulting to my intelligence.

Thus it aggravates me. Now sure, if I was a country music fan and I really liked Toby Keith or something, I would probably be bitching "why can't I just listen to country music without some conservative propaganda thrown in there." But I'm not. So I don't hear it. I'm a progressive, open-minded, intelligent person, and I want to enjoy smart, thoughtful forms of entertainment, but the smug liberal media takes it for granted that only liberals are smart. Conservatives are stupid. So all these supposed "comedy, entrainment" shows just treat you like you're in on the joke - haha, look at those stupid conservatives. Sorry, I don't agree, and it pisses me off.

[Woody]

Of the five or six Obama threads on the front page last night, I started one of them - a joke thread comparing Obama to Hitler.

It's not "just as easy" to avoid liberal propaganda, because yes, I could choose to listen to Rush and watch Fox News all day, if all I was interested in was political talk. But liberal propaganda is subtly there in everything else. For instance, when I turn on Comedy Central, I AM reading the channel description correctly, right? It is a "comedy" channel, not leftist political talk? Because it doesn't seem like it.

So I guess what you're saying is that non-liberals don't have a right to be entertained? We should only watch or listen to conservative political talk radio or Fox News - everything else is off limits? Because you can't watch comedy or, for instance, listen to music, without having some crap shoved down your throat.

This is my problem - the liberal message is entrenched in our society in very subtle ways, but it is highly obnoxious when you recognize it. Take comic books for instance. You wouldn't call comic books blatant propaganda. After all, they're loudly printing VOTE Obama, VOTE DEMOCRAT on the covers. But when you have Bush appear in a story here or there, and he's a sniveling coward, or a madman, and then you have Obama appear as a hero with Spiderman, it's sending a subtle message: liberals are good, conservatives are bad. It's not an overt message, it's just treated as if these are the facts. It's taken for granted that everyone agrees with it. And I find that insulting to my intelligence.

Thus it aggravates me. Now sure, if I was a country music fan and I really liked Toby Keith or something, I would probably be bitching "why can't I just listen to country music without some conservative propaganda thrown in there." But I'm not. So I don't hear it. I'm a progressive, open-minded, intelligent person, and I want to enjoy smart, thoughtful forms of entertainment, but the smug liberal media takes it for granted that only liberals are smart. Conservatives are stupid. So all these supposed "comedy, entrainment" shows just treat you like you're in on the joke - haha, look at those stupid conservatives. Sorry, I don't agree, and it pisses me off.

SO- you were disproven on the news sources so you move your complaint to all forms of entertainment?

Get real- Artists (and I use that term in the broad sense to include actors, writers, musicians) - Artists are a liberal set of people. It goes along with the mindset it takes to decide to create art for a living. If you are really that butthurt over being exposed to others' personal politics, lock yourself in a bunker somewhere.

Is it really that tough to handle contrary opinions?

[S.F. Jude Terror]

SO- you were disproven on the news sources so you move your complaint to all forms of entertainment?

Get real- Artists (and I use that term in the broad sense to include actors, writers, musicians) - Artists are a liberal set of people. It goes along with the mindset it takes to decide to create art for a living. If you are really that butthurt over being exposed to others' personal politics, lock yourself in a bunker somewhere.

Is it really that tough to handle contrary opinions?

How was I disproven on the news sources? Because one TV news station and some AM radio stations are conservative? I think you need to work on your reading comprehension.

Is it really that tough to handle contrary opinions?

Irony, thy name is Woody.

[john lewis hawk]

Long-ass posts...