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[Keb]

I had this 4-hour long discussion w/ my cousin last night. Are people and society becoming more evil? Like, do we glorify things that we might otherwise think are fundamentally or morally wrong? For example, things in excess, or the use of violence and sex and drugs in our culture. Are these things making our society worse?

I argue(d) that things have been like this forever and there is a balance of the two. My cousin said that things were getting progessively worse.

[Dragavon]

I think we are losing empathy. And the lack of ability to empathize with another person's situation leads to evil.

[BubbaKanoosh]

Yes

No.

Maybe.

I dunno.

[S.F. Jude Terror]

I think we definitely put more emphasis on personal fulfillment and declare any previous moral restrictions to be ridiculous or no longer relevant if they conflict with that, so you could make that case... but you could also make the case that the modern viewpoint is more rational.

[nietoperz]

Yes

No.

Maybe.

I dunno.

Can you repeat the question?

[Keb]

I think we definitely put more emphasis on personal fulfillment and declare any previous moral restrictions to be ridiculous or no longer relevant if they conflict with that, so you could make that case... but you could also make the case that the modern viewpoint is more rational.

Rationality and empiricism seem to have more value in our society than the moral stuff. I sometimes wonder if the amoral person is the ideal person for the 21st century.

[ZombieRed]

I think society was always evil to an extent. Society has always been flawed from the beginning. But there was always enough good or people pushing for a better society to balance it out or at least hold evil back. Violence, sex and drugs in our culture hasn't made things worse because it was always there. It's how we react to it that has changed and is making things worse, albeit very slowly.

The difference is that now we're more cynical as a society. We're no longer concerned (as a whole) with building a better community/country and we're looking out for ourselves/our family. Attitudes of narcissism and looking out for oneself are even being encouraged and people who have these attitudes are even being idolized.

Now I'm going to go and invalidate some of what I said above by saying that good and evil are relative

[Cat-Scratch]

You make it sound like we're becoming the French of Quebec.

[ZombieRed]

Rationality and empiricism seem to have more value in our society than the moral stuff. I sometimes wonder if the amoral person is the ideal person for the 21st century.

Rationality and Morality aren't mutually exclusive. Back in the 17th and 18th century, people perceived the slave trade as rational.

[Cat-Scratch]

It's a matter of perspective.

Given the attitudes of more then a century ago in North America, today could be seen as an era of evil.

[PDH]

Rationality and Morality aren't mutually exclusive. Back in the 17th and 18th century, people perceived the slave trade as rational.

Rationality is about having true beliefs and achieving your goals. If your goal is to be moral, rationality will help you find the best way of doing that, assuming morality exists. And vice versa if your goal is to be immoral.

It simply has nothing whatsoever to do with morality.

[PDH]

As for the question in the OP: no. In fact, things have never been as good as this in the whole history of Western Civilisation. Not too long ago, slavery was legal, women were property and gay people were considered to be either criminals, sinners or mentally ill (or all three). All of that has drastically changed.

There is still a huge way to go but even the people of just several decades ago were vastly morally inferior to us.

[Keb]

I think society was always evil to an extent. Society has always been flawed from the beginning. But there was always enough good or people pushing for a better society to balance it out or at least hold evil back. Violence, sex and drugs in our culture hasn't made things worse because it was always there. It's how we react to it that has changed and is making things worse, albeit very slowly.

The difference is that now we're more cynical as a society. We're no longer concerned (as a whole) with building a better community/country and we're looking out for ourselves/our family. Attitudes of narcissism and looking out for oneself are even being encouraged and people who have these attitudes are even being idolized.

Now I'm going to go and invalidate some of what I said above by saying that good and evil are relative

I think you have a point with narcissism. It's like the more people admire you, the better you are but not in a sense of what you do for others but yourself. The whole idea of swag (swagger for old folks) is drawing attention to yourself by what you do for yourself as opposed to others.

My cousin mentioned that people choose the self-enlightenment path over helping others, but taking that path doesn't necessarily mean you're bad. I countered that what we believe today is enlightenment isn't really enlightenment but a false sense of defining one's self by goals that are unattainable, without attainable goals to drive that larger goal into attainable status.

[ZombieRed]

Rationality is about having true beliefs and achieving your goals. If your goal is to be moral, rationality will help you find the best way of doing that, assuming morality exists. And vice versa if your goal is to be immoral.

It simply has nothing whatsoever to do with morality.

Truth is relative. Unless you mean being true to yourself by "true beliefs" (just want clarification on that).

[ZombieRed]

I think you have a point with narcissism. It's like the more people admire you, the better you are but not in a sense of what you do for others but yourself. The whole idea of swag (swagger for old folks) is drawing attention to yourself by what you do for yourself as opposed to others.

My cousin mentioned that people choose the self-enlightenment path over helping others, but taking that path doesn't necessarily mean you're bad. I countered that what we believe today is enlightenment isn't really enlightenment but a false sense of defining one's self by goals that are unattainable, without attainable goals to drive that larger goal into attainable status.

Enlightenment doesn't mean what your cousin thinks it means here. Enlightenment is more about awareness and knowledge. Self-Enlightenment = being more self-aware and aware of the world around you.

Anyways selfishness isn't bad or good. It is inherent in everyone. What's good or bad are the actions as a result of it. If you're doing something for yourself and it has no consequences for people around you then that's good. If you're doing something for yourself that has clear consequences for others and do it anyway then that's bad. In both situations you are technically being selfish.