Tuesday, February 20, 2018 • Morning Edition • "Blacklisted since 2012."

The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

Comics news, comic book reviews, feature articles about comics, interviews with comic creators, plus the greatest comic book and pop culture discussion in the Outhouse forums!

Advertisement

Arrow Season Six!

Hey you! Reader! Want to be a part of the GREATEST COMIC BOOK AND GEEK COMMUNITY on the web?! Well, they're not accepting new members, but we'll take anyone here, so why not sign up for a free acount? It's fast and it's easy, like your mom! Sign up today! Membership spots are limited!*

*Membership spots not really limited!

User avatar

HNutz

Rain Partier

Postby HNutz » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:51 pm

Rebirth NoctourneM wrote:
"Fumbling defense cases and illegally incarcerating alleged criminals since 2015! Worst reporting in America!"


Maybe I'm remembering this wrong, but did Iris West-Allen win a journalism award in the future, or did she "simply" have a byline on a front page article?

Either way, that's a big jump from her current output of zero.

So far this season, she's been planning her wedding at STAR Labs, "leading the team" from STAR Labs :smt078, complaining about Barry being gone in the Speed Force, complaining about Barry doing too much to prepare for the wedding, complaining about how hard Barry's trial will be on her, doing research for an appeal that wound up being useless (it ultimately came down to Ralph's deus ex machina "parlor trick"), somehow creating 4 hour training programs for her superspeedster brother, complaining about Barry letting Wally out of 4 hour training programs, taking Barry to therapy (not to readjust to life after being "dead" but because he tried to do his own thing instead of blindly following her orders), gave herself up as a hostage to a shogun robot in an attempt to "wake up Barry", married her foster brother, got Mrs. DeVoe to "confess" and DIDN'T record it, almost announced Barry's secret in open court, discussed Flash-related topics with Barry on a recorded telephone line while he was in prison, opened wedding presents, complained about Felicity and Ollie impulsively jumping on their spur-of-the-moment wedding co-over... did I miss anything?

That's a lot going on, with NO mention of her writing or anything...

At least Felicity is/was trying to make a start-up business with Mr. Terrific, pulling stepmom duty with William and trying to help them retake the city from Cayden James.
User avatar

StrongStyleFiction

cheese

Postby StrongStyleFiction » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:59 pm

HNutz wrote:


He said "a little ridiculous", not "straining the limits of believability, even in a show with a talking monkey."


Are we ever going to see Detective Chimp make a debut?

Image
User avatar

IvCNuB4

Staff Writer

Postby IvCNuB4 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:19 pm

HNutz wrote:.. opened wedding presents, complained about Felicity and Ollie impulsively jumping on their spur-of-the-moment wedding co-over... did I miss anything?..


While opening "her" wedding presents all she did was bitch and whine and piss and moan about the gifts. Maybe if this ungrateful bitch ever actually worked and had to spend a dime of her own money she'd realize the value of gifts vs work-friends of her husband's who went out of their way to buy them a present and travelled to an alternate-Earth to attend this sham commitment of love in the first place.
User avatar

StrongStyleFiction

cheese

Postby StrongStyleFiction » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:21 pm

Okay, I'm going to explain why the trial of Barry Allen was a failure even for a ridiculous soap opera starring a super hero's sociopathic wife/stepsister.

Go ahead and check this article out by the great Shamus Young: http://shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=27836

Now, you have two types of drama in the sci-fi genre typically. Details first versus drama first. Both are valid forms of storytelling. The Flash, Arrow and Legends are all drama first. That means the details don't matter as much as a details show. A police procedural(Law and Order, Homicide: Life on the Street) would be a details show first. A drama first cop show would be something like The Shield, where the details of the legal system wouldn't matter as much as say in an episode of Law and Order, only coming up when the drama dictates.

Now, in Barry Allen's trial, the audience being conditioned to view The Flash as a drama first show, will come to expect some ridiculousness and bullshittery. The details or the realism wouldn't matter as much. However, they would expect just enough to keep the drama going, like say Cecile actually putting up some kind of fucking defense. They might even expect Iris or someone on behalf of Barry to make a stirring speech to the court even though it's is kind of ridiculous and soapy. What they wouldn't expect, is for Iris to decide to out Barry as the Flash, Barry suddenly getting a brand new power out of nowhere with no setup whatsoever (a proper setup is probably more crucial to a drama first approach than a details first one), tell her not to, return time its normal behavior and have Iris stand there looking crazy and brainless.

It completely failed to bring any drama to the scene at all. In drama first, you still need some details just like in details first, you still need some drama. You can prioritize one over the other and even sacrifice some of the other in favor of the prioritized, but only up to a certain point where it just collapses on itself.

The trial of Moira Queen in Season 2 of Arrow was clearly a drama over details instance, but the drama was solid enough to carry the lack of details. In the case of the trial of Barry Allen, the writers pretty much abandoned both drama and details and gave us that abortion of a scene. Thankfully, the rest of the season has been good enough so it didn't kill the show. But I wouldn't recommend the writers tempt fate and book anymore courtroom drama on these shows anytime soon, so of course we can expect a trial of Oliver Queen in the near future on Arrow.
User avatar

HNutz

Rain Partier

Postby HNutz » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:34 pm

StrongStyleFiction wrote:
[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand
Okay, I'm going to explain why the trial of Barry Allen was a failure even for a ridiculous soap opera starring a super hero's sociopathic wife/stepsister.

Go ahead and check this article out by the great Shamus Young: http://shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=27836

Now, you have two types of drama in the sci-fi genre typically. Details first versus drama first. Both are valid forms of storytelling. The Flash, Arrow and Legends are all drama first. That means the details don't matter as much as a details show. A police procedural(Law and Order, Homicide: Life on the Street) would be a details show first. A drama first cop show would be something like The Shield, where the details of the legal system wouldn't matter as much as say in an episode of Law and Order, only coming up when the drama dictates.

Now, in Barry Allen's trial, the audience being conditioned to view The Flash as a drama first show, will come to expect some ridiculousness and bullshittery. The details or the realism wouldn't matter as much. However, they would expect just enough to keep the drama going, like say Cecile actually putting up some kind of fucking defense. They might even expect Iris or someone on behalf of Barry to make a stirring speech to the court even though it's is kind of ridiculous and soapy. What they wouldn't expect, is for Iris to decide to out Barry as the Flash, Barry suddenly getting a brand new power out of nowhere with no setup whatsoever (a proper setup is probably more crucial to a drama first approach than a details first one), tell her not to, return time its normal behavior and have Iris stand there looking crazy and brainless.

It completely failed to bring any drama to the scene at all. In drama first, you still need some details just like in details first, you still need some drama. You can prioritize one over the other and even sacrifice some of the other in favor of the prioritized, but only up to a certain point where it just collapses on itself.

The trial of Moira Queen in Season 2 of Arrow was clearly a drama over details instance, but the drama was solid enough to carry the lack of details. In the case of the trial of Barry Allen, the writers pretty much abandoned both drama and details and gave us that abortion of a scene. Thankfully, the rest of the season has been good enough so it didn't kill the show. But I wouldn't recommend the writers tempt fate and book anymore courtroom drama on these shows anytime soon, so of course we can expect a trial of Oliver Queen in the near future on Arrow.


Lots of good points here.

Barely putting up a defense, etc... Not even using the pre-established technology to change a person's look (last used by H.R. to save Iris half a season ago)... Creating new, deus ex machina powers to propel the story... Having an argument ("we have speedsters, so why not dead guys coming back to life?") that falls apart when logic is applied to them...

I was hoping for more. :(
User avatar

Rebirth NoctourneM

Rain Partier

Postby Rebirth NoctourneM » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:41 pm

HNutz wrote:He said "a little ridiculous", not "straining the limits of believability, even in a show with a talking monkey."


You know I didn't even think about that, I'm putting detective Chimp on my Legends dream cast
User avatar

achilles

Silly French Man

Postby achilles » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:44 pm

Rebirth NoctourneM wrote:
You know I didn't even think about that, I'm putting detective Chimp on my Legends dream cast


Too competent, not enough of a screw up.
User avatar

Rebirth NoctourneM

Rain Partier

Postby Rebirth NoctourneM » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:47 pm

achilles wrote:
Too competent, not enough of a screw up.


Sarah Lance, Detective Chimp, Ragman, Elastic Man, Booster Gold, Ted Kord (Of arrow season 2 Kord Industries, no I haven't forgot about that), Jessie Quick, and John Constantine.
User avatar

IvCNuB4

Staff Writer

Postby IvCNuB4 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:51 pm

Elastic Man ! http://www.adultswim.com/etcetera/elastic-man/
User avatar

achilles

Silly French Man

Postby achilles » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:02 pm

Rebirth NoctourneM wrote:
Sarah Lance, Detective Chimp, Ragman, Elastic Man, Booster Gold, Ted Kord (Of arrow season 2 Kord Industries, no I haven't forgot about that), Jessie Quick, and John Constantine.


So, what you're saying is that the chimp is the brains of your version? :P
User avatar

Rebirth NoctourneM

Rain Partier

Postby Rebirth NoctourneM » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:15 pm

achilles wrote:
So, what you're saying is that the chimp is the brains of your version? :P


Absolutely, And every episode he drives the plot forward by his intelligence and skill, allowing for more complicated mysteries. If Boostbeetle is unavailble due to Krypton shenanigans, I'll Keep Ray and the Atom of course.

leave a comment with facebook


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: GiveWarAChance and 34 guests