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HNutz

Rain Partier

Postby HNutz » Fri May 11, 2018 6:26 am

Next episode (season finale) is "Life Sentence".

Given his confession to the FBI lady that Grayson lurves ;) it could be Ollie going to prison. He DID agree to two conditions, after all, and that could be one of them. He (and his friends) did sidestep things in the trial and it's probably not good for her career to have this case fall apart like it did.
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Bianco

rubber spoon

Postby Bianco » Fri May 11, 2018 8:34 am

Does double jeopardy apply? I forget how it works and I'm too lazy to look it up. he's already been found innocent once of being Green Arrow. And despite what they might think there's no physical proof that the trial was rigged
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chap22

Rain Partier

Postby chap22 » Fri May 11, 2018 10:25 am

Bianco wrote:Does double jeopardy apply? I forget how it works and I'm too lazy to look it up. he's already been found innocent once of being Green Arrow. And despite what they might think there's no physical proof that the trial was rigged


1) no defendant has ever been found by a judge or jury to be innocent; they are found to be "not guilty"...there's a difference

2) I'm not entirely sure Arrow got the whole JNOV thing right anyway; I'm admittedly not a criminal lawyer, but I think in cases like the one presented last week, where a criminal jury finds the defendant guilty but the judge rules differently, it is technically not so much a JNOV as it is "granting a motion to set aside judgment" -- similar to JNOV, same effect, just different terminology

3) double jeopardy probably doesn't apply for any number of reasons -- generally, if a judge overrules a conviction by the jury, the prosecution may appeal to have the conviction reinstated; also, if the earlier trial is a fraud (which I feel pretty confident somebody could make a case for here what with all the Tommy/Human Target shenanigans), double jeopardy will not prohibit a new trial; also also, now that Ollie has confessed his ID to the feds, I feel pretty sure the FBI could get him on some federal charges in federal court that were not included in the state trial and as such were never ruled on, so it would really be a brand new case against him
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chap22

Rain Partier

Postby chap22 » Fri May 11, 2018 10:34 am

Now on to this week's episode, this season remains UNPOSSIBLE to enjoy because Diaz is just not a believable villain at all. I mean for fuck's sake, why none of Team Arrow, or any of the other bajillion less scrupulous people out there who clearly hate him haven't just put a bullet in his head just literally blows my mind. His whole plan just absolutely disintegrates if he's just dead, and there's nothing really special about him that prevents him from being easily killable.

And this fact is so obvious that even when there are individually cool bits in the episodes (like last night, all the action scenes were actually fun), it's impossible to enjoy them because it's all wrapped up in the stupidity that is Diaz. Just as a glaring example last night, this whole never-heard-of-before-but-supposedly-most-powerful-crime-organization-in-the-world Quadrant nonsense...Diaz just bullies his way into this group of supposedly smart criminals, then kills a second one of them, and the last original two just agree after that to just stroll right into the heart of his personal army-fortified stronghold by themselves with no weapons and no backup/protection? BULL. SHIT. (And as a second glaring example, fucking Anatoly...you are clearly working against him, you've fooled him into thinking you're not so you get to stand right next to him...pop a fucking cap in his brainpan and be done with it!) Every single thing the writers have done to try to build him up as a credible threat is just so illogical and unbelievably stupid as to make it absolutely impossible to suspend disbelief. It's embarrassing.

At this point, I welcome Ollie getting locked up and having to run the gauntlet of the old proposed "Supermax" pitch. Anything just to be different from this.
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Bianco

rubber spoon

Postby Bianco » Fri May 11, 2018 10:40 am

chap22 wrote:
1) no defendant has ever been found by a judge or jury to be innocent; they are found to be "not guilty"...there's a difference

2) I'm not entirely sure Arrow got the whole JNOV thing right anyway; I'm admittedly not a criminal lawyer, but I think in cases like the one presented last week, where a criminal jury finds the defendant guilty but the judge rules differently, it is technically not so much a JNOV as it is "granting a motion to set aside judgment" -- similar to JNOV, same effect, just different terminology

3) double jeopardy probably doesn't apply for any number of reasons -- generally, if a judge overrules a conviction by the jury, the prosecution may appeal to have the conviction reinstated; also, if the earlier trial is a fraud (which I feel pretty confident somebody could make a case for here what with all the Tommy/Human Target shenanigans), double jeopardy will not prohibit a new trial; also also, now that Ollie has confessed his ID to the feds, I feel pretty sure the FBI could get him on some federal charges in federal court that were not included in the state trial and as such were never ruled on, so it would really be a brand new case against him


Thank you
User avatar

StrongStyleFiction

cheese

Postby StrongStyleFiction » Fri May 11, 2018 8:49 pm

I really like the idea of a criminal mastermind running the entire Star City and turning it on team Arrow. In fact, it could have been a great plot except for one small detail...

Diaz is not a criminal mastermind at all. He's not clever. He's not strategic. He's not powerful or charming or abnormally intimidating. He's not hidden behind some sort of mystery or anything. He's just a dude. That's it. He's not strategic or even a meta. He doesn't have a secret army of ninjas at his command. Nothing. He's just a thug. A common thug.

So they set up the Quadrant, which is a cool idea, and then completely dismantle it like what...two episodes later? If it can be steamrolled by a nobody like Diaz, then they couldn't have been that bad ass and powerful in the first place.

I didn't care for Cayden James at first, but he got interesting as the season went on. They are trying really hard to make Diaz into a big bad on the level of Prometheus and Deathstroke, but its not working at all. The actor isn't particularly menacing or maniacal enough to really make this work. Diaz has to the be the worst big bad on Arrow.

Ras Al Ghul was fine but the season had nothing for him to do when it came to second half. Damian Darhk was undercut by a poorly planned and structured season. This time around, everything around Diaz is fine but the character just doesn't work. It's terrible.
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jephd

Swedish Pinata of Death

Postby jephd » Wed May 16, 2018 7:20 pm

What if this entire time Laurel has actuallybeen called "Yanny" :wink: :roll:
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achilles

Rain Partier

Postby achilles » Wed May 16, 2018 8:31 pm

jephd wrote:What if this entire time Laurel has actuallybeen called "Yanny" :wink: :roll:


She was. Though I have crap speakers, I admit.
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IvCNuB4

Staff Writer

Postby IvCNuB4 » Thu May 17, 2018 11:03 pm

Well-staged fight scene in the beginning but they're feeling repetitious.
At this point showing Mr Terrific as a martial-arts fighter is like showing Iris West as a martial-arts fighter.
Points for Sara's brief appearance at the end. There shouldn't be any reason for Laurel to stay around now, right?
The ending seemed obvious. We waited all season for this ??
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Rebirth NoctourneM

Rain Partier

Postby Rebirth NoctourneM » Thu May 17, 2018 11:34 pm

IvCNuB4 wrote:Well-staged fight scene in the beginning but they're feeling repetitious.
At this point showing Mr Terrific as a martial-arts fighter is like showing Iris West as a martial-arts fighter.
Points for Sara's brief appearance at the end. There shouldn't be any reason for Laurel to stay around now, right?
The ending seemed obvious. We waited all season for this ??


Know what sounds worse? season 7. All the fun of diaz pls prison. Yay.
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Zechs

Outhouse Editor

Postby Zechs » Thu May 17, 2018 11:39 pm

That was the same goddamn hospital and nurse wasn't it?!
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Rebirth NoctourneM

Rain Partier

Postby Rebirth NoctourneM » Thu May 17, 2018 11:42 pm

Zechs wrote:That was the same goddamn hospital and nurse wasn't it?!


Nite nerse? Yeah thats the one. She was in season 2 withthe mirakuru, and she helps vigilantes.
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chap22

Rain Partier

Postby chap22 » Thu May 17, 2018 11:44 pm

Rebirth NoctourneM wrote:
Know what sounds worse? season 7. All the fun of diaz pls prison. Yay.


Honestly, I'm one of the few folks who actually always really liked the GA Supermax pitch, so I don't mind the prison thing.

But keeping the worst big bad any of these shows has ever had for another year? WTF is this fresh hell? Boooooooooooo. Stupid, stupid writers/showrunners.
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Rebirth NoctourneM

Rain Partier

Postby Rebirth NoctourneM » Thu May 17, 2018 11:54 pm

chap22 wrote:
Honestly, I'm one of the few folks who actually always really liked the GA Supermax pitch, so I don't mind the prison thing.

But keeping the worst big bad any of these shows has ever had for another year? WTF is this fresh hell? Boooooooooooo. Stupid, stupid writers/showrunners.


Wasn't that basically all we did in the flashbacks?
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Bianco

rubber spoon

Postby Bianco » Fri May 18, 2018 1:24 am

Kind of a let down of a finale.

Did the writers on the first half of the Season get fired?

I mean for all the shows not just Arrow

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