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Canadian, British, Swedish, Australian Posters...

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Frag
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Re: Canadian, British, Swedish, Australian Posters...

Postby Frag » Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:46 am

Spektre wrote:
Completely accepted by someone who is too intellectually lazy to see that their philosophies are consistent. Yes, I see that everyday.

What we learn through the scientific method, is that things ARE absolute. We simply have to find consistent explanations for them.

It is when we do not know, that shades of gray creep into our thinking.


Things are not absolute.

Say you live under a dictator that is killing your people. If you rise up against him, you are either a criminal or a revolutionary.

In your worldview though, you are a criminal and you wouldn't rise up.
Jude Terror wrote:I'll vote for NPWFBH in the next election.


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Frag It wrote::smt117


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Re: Canadian, British, Swedish, Australian Posters...

Postby Spektre » Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:10 am

ReturnoftheMack wrote:
So are we abolishing money now too? :smt017


You can't be this dense. The government would not have money to redistribute if it did not collect it.
- Continuity is or it is not. There is no such thing as soft continuity.
- A character IS his continuity.
- Continuity is consistency of the characteristics of people, plot, objects, and places seen by the reader or viewer.

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Re: Canadian, British, Swedish, Australian Posters...

Postby Spektre » Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:12 am

ReturnoftheMack wrote:By the way, who prints the money without government to do so? Obviously we can't pay our taxes with money that doesn't exist because we don't pay taxes. :shock:


LOL. ROTM you make me laugh. It's like having a discussion with my 8 year old nephew sometimes.

The government does not make the US money supply currently. It hasn't performed that function in decades.
- Continuity is or it is not. There is no such thing as soft continuity.
- A character IS his continuity.
- Continuity is consistency of the characteristics of people, plot, objects, and places seen by the reader or viewer.

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Re: Canadian, British, Swedish, Australian Posters...

Postby Spektre » Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:14 am

ReturnoftheMack wrote:
Things are not absolute.

Say you live under a dictator that is killing your people. If you rise up against him, you are either a criminal or a revolutionary.

In your worldview though, you are a criminal and you wouldn't rise up.


No in my worldview things are absolute. He may be a criminal AND a revolutionary. But he cannot be either of them when it is convenient and not the same thing when it is not.
- Continuity is or it is not. There is no such thing as soft continuity.
- A character IS his continuity.
- Continuity is consistency of the characteristics of people, plot, objects, and places seen by the reader or viewer.

Frag
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Re: Canadian, British, Swedish, Australian Posters...

Postby Frag » Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:19 am

Spektre wrote:
You can't be this dense. The government would not have money to redistribute if it did not collect it.


So how do you pay cops?

How do you pay the military?

How do you pay firefighters?

These are all things that you said you would keep in your SWO.
Jude Terror wrote:I'll vote for NPWFBH in the next election.


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Frag It wrote::smt117


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Frag
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Re: Canadian, British, Swedish, Australian Posters...

Postby Frag » Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:20 am

Spektre wrote:
LOL. ROTM you make me laugh. It's like having a discussion with my 8 year old nephew sometimes.

The government does not make the US money supply currently. It hasn't performed that function in decades.


"The Treasury prints and mints all paper currency and coins in circulation through the Bureau of Engraving and Printing and the United States Mint."

EDIT: The Fed issues the money and has since 1914. Is that what you are talking about?
Last edited by Frag on Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jude Terror wrote:I'll vote for NPWFBH in the next election.


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Frag It wrote::smt117


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Re: Canadian, British, Swedish, Australian Posters...

Postby Frag » Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:24 am

Spektre wrote:
No in my worldview things are absolute. He may be a criminal AND a revolutionary. But he cannot be either of them when it is convenient and not the same thing when it is not.


Yes he can, because the definition of criminal changes once the dictator is overthrown. That's why your argument here and with retconning doesn't work.

George Washington isn't a terrorist. Definitions can change. He may have been perceived as one, but meanings change. The British may still think of him as one.

Perception matters.
Jude Terror wrote:I'll vote for NPWFBH in the next election.


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Frag It wrote::smt117


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Re: Canadian, British, Swedish, Australian Posters...

Postby Spektre » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:24 pm

ReturnoftheMack wrote:
"The Treasury prints and mints all paper currency and coins in circulation through the Bureau of Engraving and Printing and the United States Mint."

EDIT: The Fed issues the money and has since 1914. Is that what you are talking about?


Yes. Over 95% of the "money" in use in the US is not printing nor coined. It is create via debt out of thin air and lent.
- Continuity is or it is not. There is no such thing as soft continuity.
- A character IS his continuity.
- Continuity is consistency of the characteristics of people, plot, objects, and places seen by the reader or viewer.

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Re: Canadian, British, Swedish, Australian Posters...

Postby Spektre » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:25 pm

ReturnoftheMack wrote:
Yes he can, because the definition of criminal changes once the dictator is overthrown. That's why your argument here and with retconning doesn't work.

George Washington isn't a terrorist. Definitions can change. He may have been perceived as one, but meanings change. The British may still think of him as one.

Perception matters.


But you have yet a different view from PDH. So for you morality is defined as perception?
- Continuity is or it is not. There is no such thing as soft continuity.
- A character IS his continuity.
- Continuity is consistency of the characteristics of people, plot, objects, and places seen by the reader or viewer.

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Re: Canadian, British, Swedish, Australian Posters...

Postby Frag » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:30 pm

I didn't say anything about morality, just absolutes.
Jude Terror wrote:I'll vote for NPWFBH in the next election.


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Frag It wrote::smt117


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Re: Canadian, British, Swedish, Australian Posters...

Postby Thunderstorm » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:46 pm

How does the government function if they get no money? Or are we doing away with government completely?

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Re: Canadian, British, Swedish, Australian Posters...

Postby Frag » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:54 pm

Thunderstorm wrote:How does the government function if they get no money? Or are we doing away with government completely?


With positive thoughts.
Jude Terror wrote:I'll vote for NPWFBH in the next election.


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Re: Canadian, British, Swedish, Australian Posters...

Postby Thunderstorm » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:58 pm

ReturnoftheMack wrote:
With positive thoughts.


I guess we could have a volunteer government that wouldn't be completely controlled by the rampant corruption of the unregulated corporations.

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Re: Canadian, British, Swedish, Australian Posters...

Postby Thunderstorm » Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:03 pm

Spectre, you might be the best PsyOps agent ever. Your anti-government, anti-tax ideas have managed to make me more pro-governemnt and pro-taxation than any other arguements I've ever heard.

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Re: Canadian, British, Swedish, Australian Posters...

Postby PDH » Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:26 pm

I'm going to try and avoid repeating material, here.

PDH, one thing I have come to understand greatly over time is that while you have a steady handle on syllable count, you have a very poor grasp of science. I spent a good deal of my graduate research dealing with BAYES' theorem. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of this theory and its applications. It has nothing to do with logic, it is a probability theorem. It certainly says nothing to how people belief systems should mold themselves to some perverse worldview nor does it govern science as a system of logic. Get your head out of your pop-science ass and do some studying before you throw around terms you don't understand.

I would base my decisions on future information but it isn't available at this time.


I've noticed that the more you come to realise the frailties of your position, the more you come to rely on intellectual condescension and bluster. Interesting.

The claim was that Bayes' Theorem (so sorry about misplacing my apostrophe before :roll: ) describes how probabilities are altered in light of new information. This is significant because you think it's somehow a problem that consequentialists are rational.

You respond to me as if I was making the claim that we can derive the whole of Bayesian Epistemology from Bayes' Theorem alone. This isn't true, you need a couple of other assumptions, too, such as the claim that epistemic states can be represented as probability distributions. That's why most of the people who know how to use the Theorem are not properly speaking Bayesians and why merely knowing and having used the theorem does not make you an expert on Bayesian Epistemology.

By all means, though, tell me how a proper understanding of science compels us to ignore evidence. :lol:

Once again folks, note the sheer volume of words to say nothing to the fact that the consequentialist does nothing but kick the moral judgement one step down the road to make a arbitrary decision about an act's morality. The theory makes an appeal to an inherent morality and is thus not self-consistent.


Once again, folks, note how Spektre just replaces his opponents arguments with more extreme and simplified versions of them because he has no response. I have explicitly described the difference between these two things and its relevance, if you can't respond to this you would be better off writing nothing at all then misrepresenting it.

...And that's basically it. Everything else you wrote is adequately responded to by these two comments. You either don't address a point at all, fail to understand that we must always base our decisions on incomplete information or fail to distinguish between intrinsic and terminal, even though I've explained the difference multiple times. Throw in some intellectual condescension, which is what you resort to when things aren't going your way and that's about the long and short of it.

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