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Is a "Che" shirt equal to a shirt with the Confede

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S.F. Jude Terror
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Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:36 pm

I was never a big of Rage Against the Machine. Che Guevara sings like he has a piece of swiss cheese caught in his throat. :wink:
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Postby billyzoom666 » Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:14 pm

lancer_man wrote:I was specifically pointing out the people who embrace the Confederate flag who live in (and always have) the North. I have seen this a lot in rural parts of the midwest and it always makes me laugh.


I have a friend who wears a Confederate flag bandana when we go fishing, I think primarily to annoy me. He spouts off some stuff about it symbolizing country music. I don't even argue with him anymore. I just point out that he's never lived farther south than the Illinois/Wisconsin border.

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Postby NedPepper » Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:33 pm

MoneyMelon wrote:I always thought the fish was a better symbol for Christianity


Except when the Jesus fish is eating the evolution fish.

It would make sense if the evolution fish was eating the Jesus fish, but I digress.

As long as its tacked to the back of your minivan, you and your fish on a one way ticket to Heaven.

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Postby Wisdom000 » Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:52 pm

Not really the same thing......

Che t-shirts are worn by retarded suburbanite college kids who want to be seen as revolutionary and anti-establishment, and are honestly too ignorant to actually research the face they are identifying themselves with.

In effect as popular definition of the image of che leans more and more towards simply seeing it as a sign of revolution, much like the upraised fist, the peace symbol or even the thumbs up..

The Stars and Bars however are worn by people fully aware of its place as a symbol of institutionalized opression disguised as "southern pride". Popular opinion defines it as a symbol of hatred.

Regardless of an image or symbols true meaning, or anythings true meaning for that matter, the actual definition of something is unfortunately set by public opinion.

Take for example the Swastika, an ancient symbol with multiple origins as diverse as ancient egypt, asia, and nordic cultures. A benevalent symbol, often associated with fertility, fortune, and other good tidings, forever changed into a symbol of hate, prejudice, and genocide due to it's relation with the Nazi's. Or the ever popular thumbs up, a sign of good tidings, but originally it was the sign used by roman emporers to signal execution, thumbs down was for mercy. As mentioned previously, before christianities embracing of the cross, it was a method of slow torturous execution, not a divine benevolent icon.

The literal definition of faggot is a bundle of kindling, gay used to mean happy, queer just meant strange, and yet due to popular definition, these words have all unfortunately been used to demonize homosexuality.

Regardless of origins, regardless of literal definition, popular opinion is what defines symbols and icons.

So by that token, afficianados of the stars and bars, a symbol they know full well is associated with racism and bigotry, as well as treason, are more offensive than afficianadoes of Che t-shirts/posters, who almost never have any clue of the man they are associating themselves with. But, Che fans are usually far more ignorant than CF fans, so it all evens out.
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Postby daitong » Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:30 am

Meh, they're just fashion statements. It doesn't bother me either way. One's a symbol of the Old South (and intolerance to some), the other is of a man who's principles got corrupted in the name of power. Now, they are brands. To each his own.
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Postby Nightfly » Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:37 am

daitong wrote:Meh, they're just fashion statements. It doesn't bother me either way. One's a symbol of the Old South (and intolerance to some), the other is of a man who's principles got corrupted in the name of power. Now, they are brands. To each his own.

Seconded.

This is the t-shirt I most like wearing (when I'm not wearing a Public Enemy or Rage Against The Machine tour shirt)
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I bought it through Diamond Previews 8)
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Postby jza1218 » Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:41 am

daitong wrote:Meh, they're just fashion statements. It doesn't bother me either way. One's a symbol of the Old South (and intolerance to some), the other is of a man who's principles got corrupted in the name of power. Now, they are brands. To each his own.


So what you're saying is that you do like my Pol Pot shirt...

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Postby lancer_man » Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:09 am

Thunderstorm wrote:Maybe this is a better example. The flag has more to do with this:

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Than this:

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Everybody hates those people. Even these folks.

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I agree with you that we should ignore the racist idiots who use it as a symbol. I believe that there are many people who use it only as a way to show pride in their regional history. (I guess we can thank the movie Gone with the Wind for tying those things together.)

The only problem I have with the whole thing (aside from dumb ass Northerners using it to show Pride??) is that it HAS been used by more than just ignroant dumbasses for hateful and racist reasons.

Adding it to the Georgia flag in 56 was a way to try and unite the South to protect against the spread of Segregation and the Civil Rights movement. The same with the display of it over many of the state buiding across the south durring the 50s and 60s.

That is an institutionalized use of it tied to fears of racial integration. That is what changed it from just "pride" to something more. Not the klan, but elected officials in many different levels of government.

I think it is still can be used for a way to show "pride" of the south, but unfortunatly some people also made it a uniting symbol in the fight against the civil rights movement. That makes it flawed.

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Postby Thunderstorm » Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:57 pm

lancer_man wrote:I agree with you that we should ignore the racist idiots who use it as a symbol. I believe that there are many people who use it only as a way to show pride in their regional history. (I guess we can thank the movie Gone with the Wind for tying those things together.)

The only problem I have with the whole thing (aside from dumb ass Northerners using it to show Pride??) is that it HAS been used by more than just ignroant dumbasses for hateful and racist reasons.

Adding it to the Georgia flag in 56 was a way to try and unite the South to protect against the spread of Segregation and the Civil Rights movement. The same with the display of it over many of the state buiding across the south durring the 50s and 60s.

That is an institutionalized use of it tied to fears of racial integration. That is what changed it from just "pride" to something more. Not the klan, but elected officials in many different levels of government.

I think it is still can be used for a way to show "pride" of the south, but unfortunatly some people also made it a uniting symbol in the fight against the civil rights movement. That makes it flawed.


It is flawed, but until there's another symbol that unites these people... or until the rest of the country and the media can stop using decades-old stereotypes to portray them, it's not going away.

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Postby DeadFett » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:21 pm

Nightfly wrote:Seconded.

This is the t-shirt I most like wearing (when I'm not wearing a Public Enemy or Rage Against The Machine tour shirt)
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I bought it through Diamond Previews 8)


I have that shirt. I love the looks people give me when I wear it.
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Postby Nightfly » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:24 pm

DeadFett wrote:I have that shirt. I love the looks people give me when I wear it.

I got and started wearing it when it was first solicited. Assuming you did also, have you noticed how reactions have changed over the past couple years Image
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Postby lancer_man » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:25 pm

Thunderstorm wrote:It is flawed, but until there's another symbol that unites these people... or until the rest of the country and the media can stop using decades-old stereotypes to portray them, it's not going away.


I would say use the SEC logo as the new symbol but I am more sick of hearing of about that than the damn stars and bars.

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Postby Thunderstorm » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:27 pm

lancer_man wrote:I would say use the SEC logo as the new symbol but I am more sick of hearing of about that than the damn stars and bars.


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That? I don't know...

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Postby daitong » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:28 pm

jza1218 wrote:So what you're saying is that you do like my Pol Pot shirt...


Meh. Cambodia is the Jan Brady of Southeast Asia.
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Postby chap22 » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:29 pm

lancer_man wrote:I would say use the SEC logo as the new symbol but I am more sick of hearing of about that than the damn stars and bars.


you're practically BEGGING for it now... :twisted: :smt039

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