The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

[Grayson]

I disagree. There are a lot of industry legends who suffered greatly in their later years because they didn't own anything that they created. They got to write and shape those characters too, but when they got sick, doing so didn't pay their medical bills. With today's creators, you can't find very many major writers who haven't learned that lesson. No one will argue that people like Kurt Busiek, Peter David and Mark Waid don't enjoy working for the big two and never considered it a lifelong dream to work in those universes. But like nearly every other writer, they've done their own work to take care of themselves, to take care of their families and even to stretch their creative muscles beyond the bubble of the big two. Geoff Johns is nearly alone in regards to not doing those things. I think that is more than valid to look at him and ask whether he's too stupid to understand the need to own something yourself, or simply not creative enough to craft something on his own.

It's fine to wonder why a writer hasn't branched out to work on their own projects but to criticize a person because you think they should? What if it is a simple as Geoff Johns doesn't want too? Why should anybody question or criticize where and how the man chooses to use his talent? You may think he is too stupid to understand that he "needs" to own something but he could very well be completely content with the contract that he was offered by DC. He could spend the rest of his career writing comics for DC and it would probably be because at the end of the day that's what makes him happy.

I just don't understand why that's such a problem or why it has suddenly become expected for writers to branch out on their own. If a friend of mine had a job that he really enjoyed and he had the opportunity to start his own business but was not 100% convinced that it was the right idea for him, I wouldn't tell him that he should quit his job and start the new business. I would tell him to do what makes him happy. Ideally, yes, a writer would strive to
have something to call their own. Something that they can look back and say that was all theirs. But it isn't really our job to expect that from them.

[Chris]

Fat Bob is the worst.

Kirkman on The Walking Dead and Invincible is fucking great. But he's mediocre AT BEST on everything else he's ever written.

Some guys are like that. They have one or two ideas/characters in them that they can knock out of the park, but once they leave their comfort zone, they suck.

[Grayson]

Kirkman on The Walking Dead and Invincible is fucking great. But he's mediocre AT BEST on everything else he's ever written.

Some guys are like that. They have one or two ideas/characters in them that they can knock out of the park, but once they leave their comfort zone, they suck.

I wouldn't mind old Fat Bob writing an on-going League of Losers comic for Marvel...

[Amoebas]

While I'm here, I thought I'd also criticise those writers who've never tried to branch out with their own ideas or original properties. People like Brubaker, Morrison and Bendis at least try and get new thoughts out.

But people like
Simone,
Johns
and Slott. Come on!

Why apply this to just comics?

I'd like criticise all those sales people, clerks, cashiers, burger flippers, desk jockeys, computer techs, and even the unemployed for not brancing out and making their own businesses.

Why all you lazy unoriginal twits continue to work for somebody else is just insane.

So c'mon everybody, quit your job today and risk everything! Do it for Twig.

[Jubilee]

What a silly comparison. Nothing to do with creative.

[Apache Chef]

What a silly comparison. Nothing to do with creative.

I work in a creative job (advertising art/creative director). I work for a company, not myself. I guess I should be out creating original works of art instead?

[GHERU]

I work in a creative job (advertising art/creative director). I work for a company, not myself. I guess I should be out creating original works of art instead?

don't forget about all those hacks writing and making video games
Fallout 3 instead of making more Fallouts, why not just quit Bethesda studios and self publish a game

and don't get me started on TV 12 Doctors, 20+ seasons of RAW, Game of Thrones, the list goes on
why aren't these writers, directors, set designers out there making their own TV shows away from networks, major cable stations, and the like? Have they no shame?
I'm sure their families would understand giving up paychecks, health insurance, and stability so they can toss their money away on self producing work with no corporate backers

[Jubilee]

If there were only 2 tv studios then yeah perhaps itd be a more valid comparison.

Comics are the only place you can really use this example as they are so ridiculously dominated by two companies who are creatively bankrupt.

You peoples arguments boil down to "I like superman comics lets insult everyone who doesn't" very silly.

Can't wait till the big 2 doninance ends.

[Jubilee]

I work in a creative job (advertising art/creative director). I work for a company, not myself. I guess I should be out creating original works of art instead?

if that was an option for you yes.

"tradition should be positively discouraged" - t.s Eliot

"superman would kick sentrys ass!" - the people I'm arguing with.

[S.F. Jude Terror]

if that was an option for you yes.

"tradition should be positively discouraged" - t.s Eliot

"superman would kick sentrys ass!" - the people I'm arguing with.

[Amoebas]

if that was an option for you yes.

"tradition should be positively discouraged" - t.s Eliot

"superman would kick sentrys ass!" - the people I'm arguing with.

"arguing"? I thought this was just another performance.

[GHERU]

If there were only 2 tv studios then yeah perhaps itd be a more valid comparison.

Comics are the only place you can really use this example as they are so ridiculously dominated by two companies who are creatively bankrupt.

You peoples arguments boil down to "I like superman comics lets insult everyone who doesn't" very silly.

Can't wait till the big 2 doninance ends.

wait, so because there are more options for TV and Video Game writers we shouldn't expect them to use those options to create new characters and games, but because there are only 2 (and at least 3 more) options creators should give up pay checks, benefits, and stability and risk their families' future on creator owned work with no guaranteed pay?

[AaronW]

This is a great thread and Twigg nailed it. Big 2 comics are largely creatively bankrupt and have been for a long time. They are interesting if you like re-reading the same story over and over like chap is. I lost interest in the medium largely for that reason outside of a few books. Even books I liked like Invincible were really just a take on Superboy/Superman though much more interesting than Superman has been for decades. It got to the point where I was just reading for art quality and I may as well look at pinups then. The writing, if you can call it that, is pretty much a joke. A sad pathetic joke.

[Jubilee]

wait, so because there are more options for TV and Video Game writers we shouldn't expect them to use those options to create new characters and games, but because there are only 2 (and at least 3 more) options creators should give up pay checks, benefits, and stability and risk their families' future on creator owned work with no guaranteed pay?

There are hundreds of video game and tv writers around. Most of them will work on new properties. There are a few series which go on for around 5 or 6 years, but more programmes end there. Comics are the only medium around which have thought "oh look here's a dozen good characters, let's completely milk them dry for 50 years producing 2000 stories about the same characters fighting the same bad guys"

[AaronW]

I remember when I got pissed when the creator of Ren and Stimpy said talking about the "best" writer in comics is like talking about the best writer in bubblegum cards. Peter "I love churning out trash for established properties" David wrote column attacking the idea I remember. Now I realize that outside a handful of creators he was totally right.