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S.F. Jude Terror
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Re: Community

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Sat May 19, 2012 7:05 pm

I'm not a community fanatic - I only started watching it a few weeks ago. I just like to argue, and your stance on this compared to your stance on Watchmen is funny.
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Re: Community

Postby Punchy » Sat May 19, 2012 7:06 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:
But the cult of personality around him doesn't bother you like it does with Harmon?


It does a little, but it's not that big anymore, and on here at least, Moore is mocked, so it's not in my face. I'm sure if I spent more time on BleedingCool reading posts from Moore-obsessives I'd be more disturbed by it, but I don't.

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Re: Community

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Sat May 19, 2012 7:07 pm

Punchy wrote:
It does a little, but it's not that big anymore, and on here at least, Moore is mocked, so it's not in my face. I'm sure if I spent more time on BleedingCool reading posts from Moore-obsessives I'd be more disturbed by it, but I don't.



You're the Moore-obsessive here. :P
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Re: Community

Postby Punchy » Sat May 19, 2012 7:09 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:I'm not a community fanatic - I only started watching it a few weeks ago. I just like to argue, and your stance on this compared to your stance on Watchmen is funny.


You only started watching it recently? Then get off my back you johnny-come-lately!

As I said, I really don't think Before Watchmen and this are that comparable.

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Re: Community

Postby Punchy » Sat May 19, 2012 7:10 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:

You're the Moore-obsessive here. :P


Hardly, I haven't even read Lost Girls!

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Re: Community

Postby Rockman » Sat May 19, 2012 8:49 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:
I didn't say people who don't watch Community are stupid, I said people who watch American Idol are stupid. Subtle difference. My point is that when you aim for something to be as popular as possible, you must by nature cater to the lowest common denominator. However, when you aim to satisfy one particular niche, you can have a much better show for fans of that show. I think that the push of entertainment corporations today to appeal to the lowest common denominator all the time is detrimental to the quality of product. You see it everywhere, in tv, movies, comics, wrestling, music, whatever.

A show like Community has a solid fanbase, be happy appealing to that fanbase because they're probably not the same people watching your 50 American Idol clones. So on a weekly TV schedule that has however many hours of original programming, there's not room for a show like Community that appeals to a smaller but solid fanbase, and it needs to be retooled to be more like every other sitcom? Ridiculous.


I don't think people who watch American Idol are stupid at all, they just enjoy listening to people sing.

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Re: Community

Postby doombug » Sat May 19, 2012 11:27 pm

Sorry Punchy/Rockman but judging Harmon on the Chevy Chase situation (when at least half of it was the two of them completely fucking around and even apologizing to each other in the long run) is a bit crazy.

Not to mention? Harmon wasn't screwed over? Really? So that's why Dino (starburns) and at least 2 of the other head writers have said they have no intention of ever returning.

They replaced him without even having the decency to tell the man he was fired, that's the direct definition of fucked up.


And honestly Punchy? I'm not rabid about the show, I just happen to be a huge comedy nerd who listens to things like the Marc Maron podcast, watches the Soup any chance he can get, understands the history and background behind most of the people around both Parks and Rec and Community and just at the end of the day enjoys good comedy.

I can concede when a show has its week moments (seasons 1 and 3 have the weakest episodes of Community) and god season 1 of Parks and rec is unbearable.

I just find it funny that you try to rationalize that Harmon being screwed over like he has been isn't in any way, shape or form similar to what's happened to Alan Moore.
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Re: Community

Postby Rockman » Sun May 20, 2012 12:29 am

I certainly didn't see any apologies from either side, maybe it happened and it wasn't reported I don't know. But embarassing the dude in front of his kid is pretty messed up. Chase is historically a tough person to work with, but there are boundaries and that is definitely one you shouldn't cross.

But despite that, why should I get upset about this dude getting "screwed" over. His contract wasn't renewed, big deal. I've seen way worse happen all the time, to people who are affected by not having a job a lot more than some hollywood producer.

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Re: Community

Postby doombug » Sun May 20, 2012 3:33 am

http://neil-gaiman.tumblr.com/post/2334 ... s-anything

The fact that Neil Gaiman who offered to write an Inspector Spacetime bit is even angry should tell you something.

(But hey, according to guys like Punchy, us Community fans are entitled and shouldn't enjoy our fun comedy who's showrunner just got fucked over heavily.)
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Re: Community

Postby Punchy » Sun May 20, 2012 5:03 am

doombug wrote:Sorry Punchy/Rockman but judging Harmon on the Chevy Chase situation (when at least half of it was the two of them completely fucking around and even apologizing to each other in the long run) is a bit crazy.

Not to mention? Harmon wasn't screwed over? Really? So that's why Dino (starburns) and at least 2 of the other head writers have said they have no intention of ever returning.

They replaced him without even having the decency to tell the man he was fired, that's the direct definition of fucked up.


And honestly Punchy? I'm not rabid about the show, I just happen to be a huge comedy nerd who listens to things like the Marc Maron podcast, watches the Soup any chance he can get, understands the history and background behind most of the people around both Parks and Rec and Community and just at the end of the day enjoys good comedy.

I can concede when a show has its week moments (seasons 1 and 3 have the weakest episodes of Community) and god season 1 of Parks and rec is unbearable.

I just find it funny that you try to rationalize that Harmon being screwed over like he has been isn't in any way, shape or form similar to what's happened to Alan Moore.


Because it isn't similar, show me where Sony reneged on a contract, or did something they said they wouldn't do, or broke a promise.

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Re: Community

Postby Punchy » Sun May 20, 2012 5:05 am

doombug wrote:http://neil-gaiman.tumblr.com/post/23349287653/dan-harmon-poops-hey-did-i-miss-anything

The fact that Neil Gaiman who offered to write an Inspector Spacetime bit is even angry should tell you something.

(But hey, according to guys like Punchy, us Community fans are entitled and shouldn't enjoy our fun comedy who's showrunner just got fucked over heavily.)


The very fact that you used 'our' is a strange signal to me.

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Re: Community

Postby Punchy » Sun May 20, 2012 5:51 am

And as I've said before, I'm a fan of Community, I've seen every episode, watching regularly from the very beginning. I've liked about 3/4s of them a whole lot. But I don't watch the show for Dan Harmon, I didn't even know who the hell he was when I watched the pilot, I watched it for Chevy Chase and John Oliver. There is more to Community than a writer. TV is a collaborative medium, Harmon didn't do every single thing.

I'm just not going crazy about this, why is that such a bad thing? I don't see why we have to forgive Dan Harmon his dickishness just because he's funny, if that was the case, we wouldn't have threads on this site full of people calling Alan Moore a crazy old man.

He brought this on himself, and it's a bummer that he lost his job, but life goes on, there are other brilliant comedies, there will be other brilliant comedies, and who knows, Community 2.0 could still be a brilliant comedy.

I just wish you would all chill out. This is the last I'll say on this topic.

Cool? Cool cool cool.

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Re: Community

Postby nietoperz » Sun May 20, 2012 5:58 am

Punchy wrote:And as I've said before, I'm a fan of Community, I've seen every episode, watching regularly from the very beginning. I've liked about 3/4s of them a whole lot. But I don't watch the show for Dan Harmon, I didn't even know who the hell he was when I watched the pilot, I watched it for Chevy Chase and John Oliver. There is more to Community than a writer. TV is a collaborative medium, Harmon didn't do every single thing.

I'm just not going crazy about this, why is that such a bad thing? I don't see why we have to forgive Dan Harmon his dickishness just because he's funny, if that was the case, we wouldn't have threads on this site full of people calling Alan Moore a crazy old man.

He brought this on himself, and it's a bummer that he lost his job, but life goes on, there are other brilliant comedies, there will be other brilliant comedies, and who knows, Community 2.0 could still be a brilliant comedy.

I just wish you would all chill out. This is the last I'll say on this topic.

Cool? Cool cool cool.


The thing is, when a showrunner is removed from a show that very much bears that person's voice, the show's whole timbre and tone tends to change. It's very likely that will happen to Community - witness Joel McHale saying he prayed Harmon would not be replaced. Add to this the fact that Sony and NBC say they are doing it 'to broaden the show's appeal.' This essentially translates to bad news for the quirkiness and risk-taking people liked in the show. Imagine Buffy without Joss Whedon and you'll see what I mean.

It would have been better if the show had been cancelled than for it to come back stripped of what made it special - and remember, Harmon isn't alone: his co-showrunners are gone as well. Also, the people taking over are known for traditional, studio-audience-style sitcoms such as Just Shoot Me. People are right to be worried, and while Harmon is inarguably somewhat the architect of his own downfall that does not mean we should greet this news with anything but annoyance and trepidation.
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Re: Community

Postby Punchy » Sun May 20, 2012 7:52 am

nietoperz wrote:
The thing is, when a showrunner is removed from a show that very much bears that person's voice, the show's whole timbre and tone tends to change. It's very likely that will happen to Community - witness Joel McHale saying he prayed Harmon would not be replaced. Add to this the fact that Sony and NBC say they are doing it 'to broaden the show's appeal.' This essentially translates to bad news for the quirkiness and risk-taking people liked in the show. Imagine Buffy without Joss Whedon and you'll see what I mean.

It would have been better if the show had been cancelled than for it to come back stripped of what made it special - and remember, Harmon isn't alone: his co-showrunners are gone as well. Also, the people taking over are known for traditional, studio-audience-style sitcoms such as Just Shoot Me. People are right to be worried, and while Harmon is inarguably somewhat the architect of his own downfall that does not mean we should greet this news with anything but annoyance and trepidation.


Would it? That's putting many more people than Harmon out of a job. And the new show-runners have most recently worked on the excellent Happy Endings, s

I've never seen Buffy, so I wouldn't know, but didn't Whedon step back a lot from that show at the end to focus on Angel?

Dammit, I said I'd stop talking about this, I've said my piece.

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Re: Community

Postby KingPagla » Sun May 20, 2012 8:03 am

Punchy wrote:
Would it? That's putting many more people than Harmon out of a job. And the new show-runners have most recently worked on the excellent ( :smt017 ) Happy Endings, s

I've never seen Buffy, so I wouldn't know, but didn't Whedon step back a lot from that show at the end to focus on Angel?

Dammit, I said I'd stop talking about this, I've said my piece.

Now we know the it'll suck next season.
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