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Democrats feel sports stadiums shouldn't get public funding

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jza1218

Postby jza1218 » Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:40 am

cyphon wrote:Again, it comes down to what your upfront outlay (and associated servicing fees) is versus how much additional revenue you will bring it. For something like New York City, it makes zero sense whatsoever. You COULD make an arguement for a smaller market, but then those are also the markets that tend to have less money to spend on luxuries like this.


How does it not make any sense for NY?

The average ticket price for Mets and Yankees are much higher and the average attendances are much greater too. Concession, merchandise, etc are also much more expensive too.

Add in the taxes they receive from the huge salaries of the players (like $450M combined in payroll) and they're rolling in the money

Not to mention the tourism that teams like the Yankees bring
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cyphon

Swedish Pinata of Death

Postby cyphon » Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:44 am

jza1218 wrote:How does it not make any sense for NY?

The average ticket price for Mets and Yankees are much higher and the average attendances are much greater too. Concession, merchandise, etc are also much more expensive too.

Add in the taxes they receive from the huge salaries of the players (like $450M combined in payroll) and they're rolling in the money

Not to mention the tourism that teams like the Yankees bring


It makes less sense for a major metropolitan area, because the overwhelming majority of the tickets are going to be from the local area, ie. tax dollars that would otherwise.

As to payroll, how much of that do the cities/states actually get. I know there are accounting and "where you live" loopholes that can be exploited?

Spidey-Man

Postby Spidey-Man » Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:46 am

I think that's a flaw in your thinking. the NYC metropolitan area includes NYC, Upstate NY, COnnecticut, NJ< Long Island.

Yankees fans come from all over that area. Spending money that they would otherwise be spending in NJ, CT, Long Island, etc. None of which benefits NYC. or the Bronx. if they stay home.
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lancer_man

Expert Post Whore

Postby lancer_man » Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:50 am

cyphon wrote:As to payroll, how much of that do the cities/states actually get. I know there are accounting and "where you live" loopholes that can be exploited?


I used to live in the town outside of Cleveland where the Browns train and are headquartered. The town got a huge boost from those extra taxes. When they left for a few years it was actually a bit of a problem paying for things.

jza1218

Postby jza1218 » Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:52 am

cyphon wrote:It makes less sense for a major metropolitan area, because the overwhelming majority of the tickets are going to be from the local area, ie. tax dollars that would otherwise.


No, it doesnt mean that it's tax dollars that would otherwise be spent there.

Luxury expenditures like tickets to a game dont operate like commodities. The money spent at a Met or Yankee game isnt money that necessarily would have been spent in the city. It's money that might have gone toward a vacation, a trip to Atlantic City, a day trip to Connecticut.

As to payroll, how much of that do the cities/states actually get. I know there are accounting and "where you live" loopholes that can be exploited?


Look at Derek Jeter trying to cheat the city out of his taxes. He owed possibly millions in backtaxes

jza1218

Postby jza1218 » Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:54 am

Man of Steel wrote:I think that's a flaw in your thinking. the NYC metropolitan area includes NYC, Upstate NY, COnnecticut, NJ< Long Island.

Yankees fans come from all over that area. Spending money that they would otherwise be spending in NJ, CT, Long Island, etc. None of which benefits NYC. or the Bronx. if they stay home.


He's also ignoring the taxes that the cities get for the athletes advertising deals. Derek Jeter signs a deal with Ford, NY gets tax money
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AaronW

Rain Partier

Postby AaronW » Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:01 am

Man of Steel wrote:Not necessarily. If I dont go to the Yankees game, im not spending that money in the city, much less the Bronx.

Im stayintg home, which benefits NYC not in the least.


Just a personal example. But people will travel to a city, sometimes a state, because of a team.


True, but from what I've read they would make more tax cash if they just made a mall.

jza1218

Postby jza1218 » Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:03 am

Aaron_W wrote:True, but from what I've read they would make more tax cash if they just made a mall.


The problem is that people dont want malls here and THAT is an example of something that if you didnt build, the tax dollars would still get spent locally.
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AaronW

Rain Partier

Postby AaronW » Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:55 am

milton73 wrote:I agree with the Democrats


Next you will have an "Obama is my savior" t-shirt!
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MoneyMelon

Chief Yankee Wanker

Postby MoneyMelon » Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:16 am

I don't see the sense in public money being spent on stadiums, even in New York. Sure, you'll see a boost in attendance for a couple years after a new stadium opens, but the Yankees have been drawing 45,000 fans a night for the last several years in the old stadium. People show up more for the team than for the building. I'm sure in the next couple years, they'll top that attendance, but after a temporary boost, the attendance will level off.

Look at Pittsburgh. Beautiful stadium, but the team sucks and they struggle with attendance. If the team was good and played in a shitty stadium, I bet you they'd draw larger crowds than they do now with a shitty team and a great stadium.

Spidey-Man

Postby Spidey-Man » Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:20 am

it only makes sense, to me, if you might lose the team.
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AaronW

Rain Partier

Postby AaronW » Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:22 am

Man of Steel wrote:it only makes sense, to me, if you might lose the team.


Nah, you can't let these billionaire fucks extort from the city when they just remove more and more cheap seats to put in luxury boxes for rich fucks who often aren't even there for the game. If we bow to the Rams here in 5-6 years and spend another billion dollars on a new stadium I'll start shooting up city hall.

jza1218

Postby jza1218 » Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:26 am

MoneyMelon wrote:I don't see the sense in public money being spent on stadiums, even in New York. Sure, you'll see a boost in attendance for a couple years after a new stadium opens, but the Yankees have been drawing 45,000 fans a night for the last several years in the old stadium. People show up more for the team than for the building. I'm sure in the next couple years, they'll top that attendance, but after a temporary boost, the attendance will level off.


The Yankees have been drawing over 50,000-53,000 per game consistently and the new stadium seats 51,000 with 2000 in standing room so I don't think that there will be a drop off in attendance.

The stadium was decrepit and falling apart. Eventually, it needed to be replaced. They just chose to do so now.



Look at Pittsburgh. Beautiful stadium, but the team sucks and they struggle with attendance. If the team was good and played in a shitty stadium, I bet you they'd draw larger crowds than they do now with a shitty team and a great stadium.


I think the main problem isn't with public funding but what they're spending the money on.

The Pirates are one thing but then you look at the Steelers new facilities and they're always packed.

You dont need to throw the funding to every team but only the ones that are worthy investments.

Like, why should Miami publicly fund a new Marlins park when they don't do much for the city in the first place?

jza1218

Postby jza1218 » Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:27 am

Aaron_W wrote:Nah, you can't let these billionaire fucks extort from the city when they just remove more and more cheap seats to put in luxury boxes for rich fucks who often aren't even there for the game. If we bow to the Rams here in 5-6 years and spend another billion dollars on a new stadium I'll start shooting up city hall.


Then you just end up like LA who has fans wishing they had a football team
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MoneyMelon

Chief Yankee Wanker

Postby MoneyMelon » Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:29 am

jza1218 wrote:The stadium was decrepit and falling apart. Eventually, it needed to be replaced. They just chose to do so now.

I agree, but why should tax payers fund it?

Steinbrenner has deep pockets.

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