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George R.R. Martin Hates Your Fan-Fic

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Re: George R.R. Martin Hates Your Fan-Fic

Postby Frag » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:06 am

Denny O'Neil is your counterargument? You should have used Claremont or Bendis. :smt005

And I'm not calling fanfic writers lazy people. It is a lazier form of writing. I'm sure many of them worked very hard to write their shitty stories, like the 50 Shades of Gray author.

I don't get why you can't see the difference.
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Re: George R.R. Martin Hates Your Fan-Fic

Postby Herald » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:10 am

ReturnoftheMack wrote:
Now you sound like Spektre. If I set Batman in Narnia, the character is still Batman. Narnia is still Narnia. If I make it that Bruce Wayne created a pocket dimension in the Batcave to enter Narnia, I am still using someone else's work.


I see that you conveniently left out the part about creating your own rules, since that's the part I take issue with. It's one thing to put Batman in Narnia while keeping the elements that define both; it becomes an issue if you arbitrarily decide that your "Batman" is and has always been a mage in a wizard costume, and knows nothing at all about being a detective or a martial artist, much less dressing up like a bat to fight crime.

And let's be clear about something.


You've already been clear about your opinion of Denny O'Neil, and anyone else who has ever worked on pre-established characters: To you, they're "lazy".

You are using fanfic incorrectly.


Not at all. Sorry. :smt102

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Re: George R.R. Martin Hates Your Fan-Fic

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:14 am

But if Batman were hit over the head with a Narnian coconut as soon as he went through the wardrobe, he very easily could believe he's always been a mage in a wizard costume.
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Re: George R.R. Martin Hates Your Fan-Fic

Postby Frag » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:20 am

What have we learned today.

I apparently called Denny O'Neil lazy.

:lol: :lol:
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Re: George R.R. Martin Hates Your Fan-Fic

Postby Herald » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:20 am

ReturnoftheMack wrote:Denny O'Neil is your counterargument? You should have used Claremont or Bendis. :smt005


I don't have to, since you were foolish enough to further my argument for me. I love it when that sort of thing happens. 8)

And I'm not calling fanfic writers lazy people. It is a lazier form of writing.


Thus, the people who write it are lazy to you.

I'm sure many of them worked very hard to write their shitty stories, like the 50 Shades of Gray author.

I don't get why you can't see the difference.


I'm sure you just don't like fanfic, and I don't get why you didn't just say that in the first place instead of saying that fanfic, and thus the people who write them, are "lazy".

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Re: George R.R. Martin Hates Your Fan-Fic

Postby Herald » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:20 am

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:But if Batman were hit over the head with a Narnian coconut as soon as he went through the wardrobe, he very easily could believe he's always been a mage in a wizard costume.


That still doesn't make it true.

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Re: George R.R. Martin Hates Your Fan-Fic

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:23 am

Herald wrote:
That still doesn't make it true.


Batman isn't real, so technically all stories about him are lies.
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Re: George R.R. Martin Hates Your Fan-Fic

Postby superfictious » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:23 am

His work, his rules.

There are a growing number of people getting paid for non-canonical fanfic on Amazon. They have an entire program dedicated to it and I doubt they're the only ones. EL White has become a multi-millionaire for finding a way to sell "unofficial" Twilight fanfic to horny housewives.

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Re: George R.R. Martin Hates Your Fan-Fic

Postby Grayson » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:26 am

Herald wrote:As Chessack pointed out, what about the Avengers movie, indeed?? It's non-canonical with the comics. So, by your definition, is the Avengers movie fan fiction?? How about DC's Elseworlds, and Marvel's What If's?? Those are non-canon, too.


All of the things that you listed exist because the people who own the rights to the characters and ideas represented gave their permission for the people working on them to create those stories and the people involved were paid for their work. Whether or not they are canon within the continuity of a comic book universe, a movie universe, or an alternate comic universe designated by the owner of the intellectual property for "What If" or "Elseworld" stories doesn't change anything and no amount of pseudo intellectual arguing will change that. At this point, you're just grasping at straws.

Fan Fiction stories are stories that are written by people without permission. That's the most important part of this argument and it's the part that you keep blissfully ignoring.

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Re: George R.R. Martin Hates Your Fan-Fic

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:28 am

Batman fan film:

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Re: George R.R. Martin Hates Your Fan-Fic

Postby Frag » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:28 am

Herald wrote:
Thus, the people who write it are lazy to you.


I just said that wasn't the case. :lol:

If I take the subway from work instead of walking because I am too lazy that day, does that make me a lazy person?

I'm sure you just don't like fanfic, and I don't get why you didn't just say that in the first place instead of saying that fanfic, and thus the people who write them, are "lazy".


Well it sounds like you accepted the real definition of fanfic here which is good. Personally, I don't like fanfic. But I do agree with Martin that it is a lazier form of writing as you take shortcuts. You don't create the characters or the world.

Now just because I say that, doesn't not mean I think people who write this stuff are inherently lazy. Do you see the difference now?
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Re: George R.R. Martin Hates Your Fan-Fic

Postby Chessack » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:58 am

Grayson wrote:Fan Fiction stories are stories that are written by people without permission. That's the most important part of this argument and it's the part that you keep blissfully ignoring.


Except.

The standard way to "break into" the comic-book industry for YEARS has been to write an "inventory story" about an established, long-running character like Captain America or Supergirl, and send it to the editor of that book. An"inventory story" is a pre-written script that the editor keeps in his filing cabinet (or nowadays on his hard drive) for emergencies. When Rick Remender can't make his Cap deadline, the editor reaches into his file and looks over the list of a half-dozen or so inventory stories. These are one-shots that are not heavily continuity-based, so they can be run "any time." The editor selects one and then hires an artist to draw it (or perhaps has the regular-series artist do it). The writer is then paid for the work.

Significantly, the unsolicited inventory story was not written with permission. It was written, most of the time, by a fan. That fan is writing, by your definition, fan-fic, because he did not have permission to actually write the thing before he wrote it. AFTER having written his fan-fic Cap story, and being told by his friends/family it was good, he submitted it to the Cap editor. Later, the editor chose to publish it. Thus this item which by your definition started out as fan-fic, became part of the canon.

So, they're not as distinct as you are making them out to be.

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Re: George R.R. Martin Hates Your Fan-Fic

Postby Frag » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:01 am

Chessack wrote:
Except.

The standard way to "break into" the comic-book industry for YEARS has been to write an "inventory story" about an established, long-running character like Captain America or Supergirl, and send it to the editor of that book. An"inventory story" is a pre-written script that the editor keeps in his filing cabinet (or nowadays on his hard drive) for emergencies. When Rick Remender can't make his Cap deadline, the editor reaches into his file and looks over the list of a half-dozen or so inventory stories. These are one-shots that are not heavily continuity-based, so they can be run "any time." The editor selects one and then hires an artist to draw it (or perhaps has the regular-series artist do it). The writer is then paid for the work.

Significantly, the unsolicited inventory story was not written with permission. It was written, most of the time, by a fan. That fan is writing, by your definition, fan-fic, because he did not have permission to actually write the thing before he wrote it. AFTER having written his fan-fic Cap story, and being told by his friends/family it was good, he submitted it to the Cap editor. Later, the editor chose to publish it. Thus this item which by your definition started out as fan-fic, became part of the canon.

So, they're not as distinct as you are making them out to be.


Maybe that's possible back in the day, but that does not happen without the writer getting paid. These companies would be sued out of existence if they did that now.

And then you have to remember that the person writing it may have done so unsolicited, but did so to eventually get paid. Fanfic is usually done as a hobby.
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Re: George R.R. Martin Hates Your Fan-Fic

Postby john lewis hawk » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:09 am

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:Batman fan film:


Why so Snuka?

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Re: George R.R. Martin Hates Your Fan-Fic

Postby Herald » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:12 am

ReturnoftheMack wrote:
Maybe that's possible back in the day, but that does not happen without the writer getting paid. These companies would be sued out of existence if they did that now.

And then you have to remember that the person writing it may have done so unsolicited, but did so to eventually get paid. Fanfic is usually done as a hobby.


I'm sure most fanfic writers would LOVE to be paid for their work and have it published by DC/Marvel, "eventually" or otherwise.

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