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Joe Horn; self defense?

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User avatar

Chris

Rain Partier

Postby Chris » Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:49 pm

I'm sure many of you have heard of this..

A man shot and killed two guys who broke into his neighbor's house while he was on the phone with 911.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7jqLie6-Y0 - the 911 tape; you can hear the shots in the background.

The facts:

1. The men were not on his property.
2. 911 told him repeatedly to NOT leave his house, but he did.
3. He specifically said, quite clearly, that he would kill them.

"I'm not gonna take a chance on getting killed over this.. I'm gonna shoot. I'm gonna shoot."


Again.. all this AFTER the 911 said the safest thing for him would be to remain inside his own house. But he was a man of his word. He said he'd kill them.

And he did. As they were leaving the neighbor's house, he ran out the door and shot them in the back and killed them.

He wasn't arrested then. And, I believe.. a grand jury cleared him of any wrong-doing a few days ago.

Now, this morning, in an interview with Diane Sawyer, he said he was trying to avoid the situation. "I had to do the right thing to save my life".. despite the fact, again, that he was told 13 times not to go outside.



http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=5291894

So. Joe Horn. Was he in the right?

Personally, I don't think so. I know the right to bear arms, and the right to defend yourself is a big topic.. but I don't think it's even about that. This guy went out of his way to get involved in the situation.
User avatar

Timbales

Fisty McDigger

Postby Timbales » Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:59 pm

No, he should be in jail. He knew his neighbors were not at home. No one was in any danger until he put himself in danger against the advice of the police.
User avatar

KillerShrike

cheese

Postby KillerShrike » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:22 pm

Sounds like he'd been waiting years for a chance to kill someone, and he finally got it.
User avatar

Wisdom000

rubber spoon

Postby Wisdom000 » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:23 pm

He should be in prison for pre meditated murder, 3rd degree, 2 counts...

Not sure how there is any question about that....

jza1218

Postby jza1218 » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:33 pm

Whatever. Thieves get no sympathy from me. Horn should get a medal
User avatar

Thunderstorm

Not a Kardashian

Postby Thunderstorm » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:48 pm

You do know that 911 Operators aren't anything special, right? People don't, and shouldn't, take commands from them. If the guy felt his life could be in danger, and he killed two criminals, good for him.
User avatar

Thunderstorm

Not a Kardashian

Postby Thunderstorm » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:50 pm

And let me also add....

If you aren't planning to rob someones house, how is this an issue? :roll:
User avatar

Zenguru

Staff Writer

Postby Zenguru » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:52 pm

Personally, I don't see why he couldn't just shoot in the air and scare those guys into dropping their loot. From the tape, it sounds like he chased them for a little bit. Because the last shots weren't as loud as the first ones.
User avatar

KillerShrike

cheese

Postby KillerShrike » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:54 pm

Thunderstorm wrote:You do know that 911 Operators aren't anything special, right? People don't, and shouldn't, take commands from them. If the guy felt his life could be in danger, and he killed two criminals, good for him.



Clearly, matters of life and death should be left in the hands of retired AT&T employees.

If the guy stayed inside he would have been safe. He wanted to be John Wayne, and as a result, two people are dead. To me, that's not a fair trade.
User avatar

Chris

Rain Partier

Postby Chris » Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:02 pm

Thunderstorm wrote:You do know that 911 Operators aren't anything special, right? People don't, and shouldn't, take commands from them. If the guy felt his life could be in danger, and he killed two criminals, good for him.


But his life wasn't in danger until he went outside and put it in danger. He was in his own home. The two UNARMED men, were in his neighbor's home.
User avatar

Thunderstorm

Not a Kardashian

Postby Thunderstorm » Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:06 pm

DaReekstah wrote:But his life wasn't in danger until he went outside and put it in danger. He was in his own home. The two UNARMED men, were in his neighbor's home.


He did not know they were unarmed, and his house could have been next. I have absolutely no problem with what he did, if more people stopped taking this shit from criminals, things like this wouldn't have to happen. It is further than I would have taken it, but I've said before, if someone breaks in my house, they are getting shot. Period.
User avatar

Chris

Rain Partier

Postby Chris » Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:06 pm

Thunderstorm wrote:And let me also add....

If you aren't planning to rob someones house, how is this an issue? :roll:


Sorry. I consider murder an issue. I'm funny like that.
User avatar

Strict31

Rain Partier

Postby Strict31 » Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:07 pm

It wasn't self defense. He got cleared not because of the law but in spite of it. He had jurors who felt sympathy with him. I ain't got a problem using a gun to defend myself or my home. He claimed his life was threatened.

Threatened by two unarmed guys who were in the process of moving in the opposite direction. That don't really wash. From the tape, it sounds like this man was simply so angry that he was ready to kill someone. And he pretty much did exactly that.

Now, there's probably gonna be a lot of mutha-fuckas talking shit about having sympathy for some B&E illegals instead of law-abiding citizens. Speaking as a guy who just two weeks ago was the victim of a B&E, allow me to say this dude was not a law-abiding citizen.
User avatar

Chris

Rain Partier

Postby Chris » Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:09 pm

Thunderstorm wrote:He did not know they were unarmed, and his house could have been next.


COULD HAVE.

You know.. there's been some home invasions a few streets over, here. Maybe I should get a gun and start going out at night, popping some fools, making sure they don't stop by at my house someday. :roll:

That's called vigilanteism. Last I checked, it was illegal.

It is further than I would have taken it, but I've said before, if someone breaks in my house, they are getting shot. Period.


That I have no problem with. But they were not in his house. They were not even on his property.

Again, could they have gone to his house next? It's possible. But for one, there was no one home at the neighbor's house. And I'm assuming Horn had a car in the driveway, and it was obvious that there was someone home at his house. So the odds of them going to his house were slim as it is. But even still.. he still had his gun. IF they were to go to his house, THEN he could take matters into his own hands.
User avatar

Zenguru

Staff Writer

Postby Zenguru » Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:11 pm

I believe Mr. Horn really thought he was acting in the interests of his neighborhood. Protecting it from crooks who may come back again. But he took the law into his own hands. Something the cops don't look too kindly upon.

If it were me, I'd've taken a picture from my window or something. I don't have the zealousness that Mr. Horn has. If they don't know I'm there and they're not coming to my house, that's one thing. But Mr. Horn forced a confrontation. And he didn't even say "freeze", "stop", or "wait for the cops" or anything like that.

Of course, there is the argument that he didn't know if they were armed with anything other than a crobar. If he had gone out with the gun intending to scare them, perhaps he could have gotten manslaughter at the most. But he told 911 he was going to kill them. You can bet murder charges should be filed. Whether they will be? Time will tell.

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