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ObamaCare Only Thread

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ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby achilles » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:11 am

Please, no philosophical discussions about whatever. This is a thread for news about ObamaCare, the effects it's having, your personal experiences with it or hopes for it, that sort of thing.

First of, what ObamaCare is supposed to accomplish. Its official name is the Affordable Care Act, and it promises among other things to lower the cost of health care in America. It also promises to allow those with pre-existing conditions to get insurance, by banning insurance companies from refusing to sign such people. It bans lifetime and annual caps on payouts by policies. It allows children to be carried on their parent's policies till the age of 26. Not a feature claimed in the law, but a promise by Obama is that if you like your current insurance policy, you can keep it. Another promise from the Maximum Leader is that if you like your doctor, you can keep him or her. Yet another promise is that the cost of your health care to you in the form of premiums will go down. As well as the promise that signing up for ObamaCare will be "as easy as buying a TV on Amazon, or a plane ticket on Kayak". And the related claim, made a couple of days ago by the Prez, that you can easily enrol by phone.

Let's examine the status currently of those claims and goals.

First off, the name, the Affordable Care Act. Well, as it turns out, the average premium for men in America is set to rise by 99%, women, somewhat less, but still a huge jump. So that claim is busted. Deductibles are also apparently rising.

The second goal of the act is the pre-existing condition one. That can't conclusively be evaluated, since these policies go into effect at the start of next year, but it is part of the law, and seems certain unless ObamaCare is somehow repealed or delayed. That first is beyond belief, and the second...is possible. Ditto with the lifetime and annual caps. These seem certain, or almost.

The children thing is already a done deal, as it phased in earlier.

The promise that you can keep your policy and your doctors if you like them...is a lie. Already, millions of Americans are being issued cancellation notices by their insurance companies, or being told by their employers that they will be moved to the ObamaCare exchanges. The reason for the first predominantly is that these people's policies typically don't meet the regulatory requirements for a policy established under ObamaCare. That is, they lack certain features the law requires. As for the second, the new exchange policies seem to be cutting their networks of doctors and hospitals so as to cut costs. And example would be that Blue Shield of California is cutting its network of doctors by around 50%, and many hospitals, including some with the reputation for being the best, such as Cedars-Cinai, (where I was born on this day some years back, and where in a bit of symmetry, I nearly died some years later), are also being dropped.

The final promises by the Prez are that it would be easy to sign up online, or over the phone. Well, we've seen the online debacle, so that one's busted. And the phone sign-up as well is busted.

That's it for the goals and promises of ObamaCare for this post, but I'll note that Obama himself is claimed by the White House to "not have known" about the problems with the website, a claim his own former White House spokesman, Robert Gibbs, said he "didn't believe because it was unbelievable". A claim, I would note he shouldn't have made, because it implies that Obama is either lying, or incompetent.

That's it for current news on ObamaCare.
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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby Thunderstorm » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:16 am

This sounds more complicated and less perfect than its supporters insisted it would be.

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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby achilles » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:19 am

Also, the period in which Americans can NOT have insurance without paying the IRS penalty has been extended to the enrolment deadline, March 15th I think, but please look that up if you're counting on it. I'm not certain as to the exact date.

Meanwhile, most of the tech experts consulted believe that the best option with the website is to scrap it and start over.
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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby 3MJ » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:23 am

I like this thread.

I don't really understand the laws or how it's changed for a lot of Americans. I did find these stories on a site I visit though.

I am fair skinned and have always been aware of how much sun exposure I have had. At the utterance of my father who also had skin cancer removed ten year prior, I was tested. I was positive for malignant melanoma on a spot on my back. My doctor said that it was a blessing that I caught this so early.
I got a job nine months later after I turned 26 that gave me health benefits. To get the same checkup and surgery would have cost me more than I made in six months.
How has OBAMACARE helped you or the ones you know?


My sister was born with Hypoplastic Left Heart Syndrome, among other things. By the age of three, she had three open heart surgeries, an ovary removed, her appendix out, and her tonsils removed. The medicines that she will need to take for the rest of her life, in addition to the other heart surgeries that she will eventually need are very, very costly.
Our health care providers told my parents that they would be dropping her at age 18, and after some shopping around we learned that no other insurer would pick her up. This meant that there was a high likelihood of death during her early adult years. But, thanks to Obamacare, she can now be covered for life with these preexisting conditions and without any benefit cap.
Now age 12, she is a very active young lady. She is involved with many community volunteer activities and is very inspirational to me. I am very thankful that we no longer have those serious worries of constant debt and looming death. I love her so much!
I wish that I could get some of my extended family members to recognize the seriousness of this issue.


I hope there is plenty more stories like this!

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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby The Old Doctor » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:31 am

It's a move in the right direction. Sad thing is, it's a drunk walk right now.
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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby Juan Cena » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:36 am

Disneyland's opening day was considered a disaster. Using conservative philosophy about the Obamacare website, it should have been shut down, and Walt Disney should have been fired.
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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby achilles » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:04 pm

Jubilee wrote:I like this thread.

I don't really understand the laws or how it's changed for a lot of Americans. I did find these stories on a site I visit though.





I hope there is plenty more stories like this!


I hope so too. Though I would have preferred a straight up government pays single payer with the option to add private insurance. But even Obama couldn't push that through when he held an outright Dem majority in the entire Congress. I suspect the insurance companies lobbied much too hard against it.
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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby achilles » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:06 pm

Cat-Scratch wrote:It's a move in the right direction. Sad thing is, it's a drunk walk right now.


Yes, it is. IMO, the IDEA of health care reform was great and needed. Sadly, the implementation was terrible, unnecessarily so.
Achilles is the kind of evil that hollows out a volcano for a lair, and sends killer robots after his enemies.---Lord Simian

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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby The Old Doctor » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:07 pm

Juan Cena wrote:Disneyland's opening day was considered a disaster. Using conservative philosophy about the Obamacare website, it should have been shut down, and Walt Disney should have been fired.


One is an amusement park to make money.

The other is a healthcare plan using tax dollars.

You fail hard here.
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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby achilles » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:11 pm

Juan Cena wrote:Disneyland's opening day was considered a disaster. Using conservative philosophy about the Obamacare website, it should have been shut down, and Walt Disney should have been fired.


There are some differences. That was new at the time, and anticipating the problems would have been hard. But projects like this have been done before--and it seems most of the problems were CAUSED by the administration, or at least allowed to happen by it. As an example, evidently the requirement that you create an account just to view quotes seems to have been made late in the day, purely as a way to hide somewhat the greatly increased expense of the policies over what was promised. That was a purely political calculation on the part of the Administration.

There also seems to have been a substantial amount of incompetence involved, both at the Administration's level, and at the contractor level.

This was a big project, but hell, let's face it, some of us have worked on projects of a similar nature, if not in scope, and it seems that everything you should do in such a project was ignored.
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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby achilles » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:05 pm

Well, the incompetence of ObamaCare in it's conception, entirely done by Democrats, is so colossal, even Democrats are abandoning it. The guy who represents Breckenridge Colorado, a wealthy ski resort, a guy who is worth $68 million himself, wants a waiver for his district, because his constituents can't afford premiums. and liberal commentator and ObamaCare Kirsten Powers found out she's going to be booted from her plan thanks to ObamaCare, and will have to buy a plan that costs twice as much to get comparable coverage.

We needed health care reform IMO, but competent reform, We didn't get the competent part.
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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby pastajoe » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:20 pm

This thread is like FOXnews. Claim to be fair and balanced, but just present right wing opinions.

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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby Frag » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:32 pm

First off, the name, the Affordable Care Act. Well, as it turns out, the average premium for men in America is set to rise by 99%, women, somewhat less, but still a huge jump. So that claim is busted. Deductibles are also apparently rising.


This report was done by the Heritage Foundation and isn't based on reality. It compares different plans and for it to work, they must have found plans worth like $20 per month. Forgive me if I'm skeptical.

The second goal of the act is the pre-existing condition one. That can't conclusively be evaluated, since these policies go into effect at the start of next year, but it is part of the law, and seems certain unless ObamaCare is somehow repealed or delayed. That first is beyond belief, and the second...is possible. Ditto with the lifetime and annual caps. These seem certain, or almost.


How would you conclusively evaluate it? You can't be rejected. Done. It's a success. Moving on.

The children thing is already a done deal, as it phased in earlier.


I don't know what this is referring to. That you can stay on your parents' plan till 26?

The promise that you can keep your policy and your doctors if you like them...is a lie. Already, millions of Americans are being issued cancellation notices by their insurance companies, or being told by their employers that they will be moved to the ObamaCare exchanges. The reason for the first predominantly is that these people's policies typically don't meet the regulatory requirements for a policy established under ObamaCare. That is, they lack certain features the law requires. As for the second, the new exchange policies seem to be cutting their networks of doctors and hospitals so as to cut costs. And example would be that Blue Shield of California is cutting its network of doctors by around 50%, and many hospitals, including some with the reputation for being the best, such as Cedars-Cinai, (where I was born on this day some years back, and where in a bit of symmetry, I nearly died some years later), are also being dropped.


The people being moved to Obamacare are still with the same insurers. The keeping your doctor promise was based on you keeping your insurance. He wasn't talking about people moving to Obamacare from another insurer.

The final promises by the Prez are that it would be easy to sign up online, or over the phone. Well, we've seen the online debacle, so that one's busted. And the phone sign-up as well is busted.


Nothing can defend this. It was a debacle.

But keep in mind that it hasn't been a month. This law isn't going anywhere for at least 4 years. Things can be fixed.
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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby syxxpakk » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:14 pm

pastajoe wrote:This thread is like FOXnews. Claim to be fair and balanced, but just present right wing opinions.


Who made that claim in this thread?
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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby achilles » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:32 pm

ReturnoftheMack wrote:
This report was done by the Heritage Foundation and isn't based on reality. It compares different plans and for it to work, they must have found plans worth like $20 per month. Forgive me if I'm skeptical.



How would you conclusively evaluate it? You can't be rejected. Done. It's a success. Moving on.



I don't know what this is referring to. That you can stay on your parents' plan till 26?



The people being moved to Obamacare are still with the same insurers. The keeping your doctor promise was based on you keeping your insurance. He wasn't talking about people moving to Obamacare from another insurer.



Nothing can defend this. It was a debacle.

But keep in mind that it hasn't been a month. This law isn't going anywhere for at least 4 years. Things can be fixed.


The study seems to be completely valid as to the overall thrust, that premiums on average are rising quite a bit under ObamaCare, no matter who did it. The exact amounts may be debatable, and vary according to your location. Anecdotal evidence, for example the Powers example, that of a huge ObamaCare booster, shows that. But for a more conclusive example....Congress. They made sure they and their staffs got the federal subsidies regardless of income levels. Or rather Obama himself did. And that Congressman for Breckenridge I point out above is angling for his district to get a waiver for the same reason.

As far as my questions as to the pre-existing conditions clause, yes, it's part of the law, which is why I think it NEARLY certain. The only caveat I mention is my uncertainty as to the viability of the law itself. There may be some changes to the law down the road, due to the fact that it wasn't put together wisely or well. Hopefully not that, but I can't say for sure, hence my slight uncertainty.

First off, Obama didn't qualify the statement about keeping your doctor. It was a blanket statement, you can keep your doctor period. Secondly, people are in fact keeping their company, but being tossed out of their plan due to ObamaCare, for reasons I already discussed. And in ObamaCare exchange programs, as well I suspect in the non-exchange programs, (though I'm not certain about that part), they are losing their doctors, simply due to the fact that the insurance companies are dropping a lot of doctors and hospitals as I detail about, and because a lot of doctors are being more restrictive as to the plans they accept. Also some doctors are moving to cash and carry.

As far as fixing the website, I hope they do, though the initial reactions don't inspire confidence, and it seems impossible to meet their self imposed deadline of the end of November.

But there's more to it than just a website, as Obama himself says. Substantial parts of the law itself need to be rewritten, (Not scraped, Republicans).
Achilles is the kind of evil that hollows out a volcano for a lair, and sends killer robots after his enemies.---Lord Simian

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