The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

[daitong]

The environment, plain and simple.

I have to agree. The speculation of how much oil is in ANWR (and the theories run across the board) will not offset the costs by that much, and, IMO, not worth the risk to the environment. I just wholeheartedly believe that there are some places in this world that we should not leave our footprint on.

But that's just me.

The biofuel debate is an interesting one. The environmental hazard and the food crisis created by biofuel production was something not foreseen by liberals.

[lancer_man]

Indeed. Just like certain wacky politicians claiming Chinese oil-drilling off the coast of Cuba.

Chinese stealth drilling technology is not wacky.

[L Independant]

I have to agree. The speculation of how much oil is in ANWR (and the theories run across the board) will not offset the costs by that much, and, IMO, not worth the risk to the environment. I just wholeheartedly believe that there are some places in this world that we should not leave our footprint on.

But that's just me.

The biofuel debate is an interesting one. The environmental hazard and the food crisis created by biofuel production was something not foreseen by liberals.

Tunnel-vision and short-sightedness. They ignored the likes of Dr. Pimentel at Cornell who for years has argued against grain-based biofuels. The corn and soy lobbies have access to the Executive Branch and Congress - it was all but a sure thing to get provisions in the energy bill. And now the corporate agribusinesses want subsidies in the Farm Bill at a time when corn prices are at their highest. Bullshit.

I can't wait until my environmental economics class this fall.

[C20Percent]

I have to agree. The speculation of how much oil is in ANWR (and the theories run across the board) will not offset the costs by that much, and, IMO, not worth the risk to the environment. I just wholeheartedly believe that there are some places in this world that we should not leave our footprint on.

The funny thing about ANWR is that I have no doubt that someday -- maybe not even in my lifetime -- it will be bled dry. As long as there's oil then there's really no alternative unless OPEC shoots itself in the foot and causes countries to seriously look at other sources.

[L Independant]

The funny thing about ANWR is that I have no doubt that someday -- maybe not even in my lifetime -- it will be bled dry. As long as there's oil then there's really no alternative unless OPEC shoots itself in the foot and causes countries to seriously look at other sources.

I think there's the blame for OPEC, the realization we may be at Peak Oil or past it, the speculators freaking out every time something happens in Nigeria (that shit's been going on a long damned time), rampant consumption (especially brought on by larger vehicles) and poor technology (refining and in automobiles) that are all contributing toward the high prices. I wouldn't point the finger in any one direction.

I read a study that said ANWR's oil is 10 years away and would only satisfy 1 year of American consumption, at our current pace. And saw a news story yesterday about how we'll be turning to Canada for more oil.

[Allen]

Tunnel-vision and short-sightedness. They ignored the likes of Dr. Pimentel at Cornell who for years has argued against grain-based biofuels. The corn and soy lobbies have access to the Executive Branch and Congress - it was all but a sure thing to get provisions in the energy bill. And now the corporate agribusinesses want subsidies in the Farm Bill at a time when corn prices are at their highest. Bullshit.

Even beyond the lobbies, just think of how important the Iowa Caucuses are in presidential elections. They grow a lot of corn and soybeans in Iowa and nobody with aspirations on the presidency (which is about 75% of the Senate in their heart of hearts and soul of souls) is going to piss them off.

[MoneyMelon]

And saw a news story yesterday about how we'll be turning to Canada for more oil.

We're on our way!

[L Independant]

Even beyond the lobbies, just think of how important the Iowa Caucuses are in presidential elections. They grow a lot of corn and soybeans in Iowa and nobody with aspirations on the presidency (which is about 75% of the Senate in their heart of hearts and soul of souls) is going to piss them off.

Agreed. Little.fucking.Iowa.

[daitong]

We're on our way!

There is a reason why the long term plan is for permanent bases in Iraq and why McMaverick is preparing us by using analogies about Germany, Korea, and Japan.

[The Juan Percenter]

No, because if we destroy the environment any further we're damning all future generations.

If we destroy the economy, we can't feed future generations.

To quote Fat Bastard in AP2: "It's a vicious cycle"

[L Independant]

There is a reason why the long term plan is for permanent bases in Iraq and why McMaverick is preparing us by using analogies about Germany, Korea, and Japan.

McMaverick. I like that.

This story from Democracy Now, courtesy of The Independent:

US Holds $50 Billion of Iraq’s Financial Reserves Hostage

The Independent of London reports the United States is holding hostage some $50 billion of Iraq’s money in the Federal Reserve Bank of New York to pressure the Iraqi government into signing an agreement to prolong the US occupation indefinitely. Patrick Cockburn reports the Federal Reserve continues to hold Iraq’s financial reserves as a legacy of the international sanctions against Saddam Hussein. US negotiators are threatening to remove tens of billions of dollars of Iraq’s money to settle outstanding court judgments dating back to the 1980s unless Iraq accepts the highly controversial military deal. The deal would allow the US to permanently keep more than fifty military bases in Iraq. American forces would also be able to continue to carry out arrests of Iraqi citizens and conduct military campaigns without consultation with the Iraqi government. American soldiers and contractors will enjoy legal immunity.

[lancer_man]

If we destroy the economy, we can't feed future generations.

Unless we feed those future generations poor people.

[MoneyMelon]

There is a reason why the long term plan is for permanent bases in Iraq and why McMaverick is preparing us by using analogies about Germany, Korea, and Japan.

See that's where we fucked up.

Canada's got oil and they're a lot closer. We should have invaded them instead.

[daitong]

Unless we feed those future generations poor people.

[Carrie]

Unless we feed those future generations poor people.

But those future generations will BE the poor people.