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[Doc Jon]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/24/sports/ncaafootball/paternos-death-costs-state-a-key-witness.html?hp

ITT can I (in jest) suggest that these guys had motive to keep Paterno quiet or should I start my own thread?

As you can see, it's been impossible to even attampt to keep this on topic. Post away!:D

[Spidey-Man]

new question
if JoePa had been wrong and Sandusky was innocent, would Sandusky be able to sue him for slander?

Im not sure i understand the question. if Joe Pa had been wrong about what?

If he said to the police "a grad assistant told me he saw X, and my bosses arent doing anything about it that i know of" thats not slander.

if the grad asst was lying he'd be guilty of defamation but not paterno.

[Doc Jon]

Im not sure i understand the question. if Joe Pa had been wrong about what?

If he said to the police "a grad assistant told me he saw X, and my bosses arent doing anything about it that i know of" thats not slander.

if the grad asst was lying he'd be guilty of defamation but not paterno.

I think he was asking if Paterno had really really pushed for an investigation or came out to the press or something when obviously all he knew was what someone else told him.

At least that's how I understood it.

[LobsterJ]

even if he went to the press and said "mcqueary told me he saw sandusky raping a 10 year old boy in the showers and the administration at penn are not thoroughly investigating it" he wouldn't be guilty of slander, would he? he is not stating sandusky did anything, just an accusation that was reported to him and the administrations failure to act appropriately, right?

[Doc Jon]

even if he went to the press and said "mcqueary told me he saw sandusky raping a 10 year old boy in the showers and the administration at penn are not thoroughly investigating it" he wouldn't be guilty of slander, would he? he is not stating sandusky did anything, just an accusation that was reported to him and the administrations failure to act appropriately, right?

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha...

C'mon, dude. How do you see that working in the real world? YOu're only taking this stance because you have the benefit of hindsight.

So Joe Paterno call a press conference:

"Listen, folks, I don't really know anything here because I didn't see anything, but an assistant says he saw Sandusky fucking a boy in the lockerroom. Remember to treat him fairly, because this is really just hearsay from my perspective."

[LobsterJ]

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha...

C'mon, dude. How do you see that working in the real world? YOu're only taking this stance because you have the benefit of hindsight.

So Joe Paterno call a press conference:

"Listen, folks, I don't really know anything here because I didn't see anything, but an assistant says he saw Sandusky fucking a boy in the lockerroom. Remember to treat him fairly, because this is really just hearsay from my perspective."

I am not saying he should have done this, just discussing what would and wouldn't be slanderous in this situation and what steps he could have taken beyond the woefully inadequate ones he did.

But now that you mention it, the scenario I mentioned is surely preferable to what actually happened.

[Doc Jon]

I am not saying he should have done this, just discussing what would and wouldn't be slanderous in this situation and what steps he could have taken beyond the woefully inadequate ones he did.

But now that you mention it, the scenario I mentioned is surely preferable to what actually happened.

Only preferable because the evidence now suggests that Sandusky is most likely guilty.

Again, you have the benefit of hindsight.

Someone like Joe Paterno talking to the press and calling out someone as a pedophile would have been pretty much a death sentence for that person. All he had was someone telling him what they saw. Paterno was known to have talked to Sandusky. What if Sandusky denied it (as he obviously would have). What now?

Does Paterno launch his own investigation?

Your actions are being guided by the fact that you know the outcome.

[LobsterJ]

Only preferable because the evidence now suggests that Sandusky is most likely guilty.

Again, you have the benefit of hindsight.

Someone like Joe Paterno talking to the press and calling out someone as a pedophile would have been pretty much a death sentence for that person. All he had was someone telling him what they saw. Paterno was known to have talked to Sandusky. What if Sandusky denied it (as he obviously would have). What now?

Does Paterno launch his own investigation?

Your actions are being guided by the fact that you know the outcome.

There has been no outcome, so I don't know how you can claim that. Sandusky, as far as I know, has yet to be convicted of anything.

[Spidey-Man]

Its not slander to say that

But paterno claims he was never told of the rape

Not sure I believe that but that’s what he says.

[Doc Jon]

There has been no outcome, so I don't know how you can claim that. Sandusky, as far as I know, has yet to be convicted of anything.

I can't see how you would have wanted Paterno to out this guy to the press if you truly believed that.

I really don't know what more Paterno could have really done. He reported it to his superiors. He reported it to the cops. I guess he could have pushed for a more thorough investigation, but again, what did he know except what one assistant told him?

[LobsterJ]

Its not slander to say that

But paterno claims he was never told of the rape

Not sure I believe that but that’s what he says.

Paterno also claimed to have not understood what man-on-man rape was despite the fact that the Catholic Church (of which Paterno was a member) was involved in a very public sex abuse scandal at the exact time that the accusations against Sandusky were reported to him.

[Spidey-Man]

Paterno, 85, told the Washington Post that the young aide who came to him in 2002 did not go into details.

"You know, he didn't want to get specific. And to be frank with you I don't know that it would have done any good, because I never heard of, of, rape and a man," Paterno said.

But even the few details that Paterno did hear baffled him.

"I didn't know which way to go," he said. "And rather than get in there and make a mistake ...."

At another point, Paterno said, "I didn't know exactly how to handle it and I was afraid to do something that might jeopardize what the university procedure was. So I backed away and turned it over to some other people, people I thought would have a little more expertise than I did. It didn't work out that way."

A day after he was alerted to what he says was a general accusation against Sandusky, Paterno says, "I called my superiors and I said, 'Hey, we got a problem, I think. Would you guys look into it?' Cause I didn't know, you know."

[Doc Jon]

Paterno, 85, told the Washington Post that the young aide who came to him in 2002 did not go into details.

"You know, he didn't want to get specific. And to be frank with you I don't know that it would have done any good, because I never heard of, of, rape and a man," Paterno said.

But even the few details that Paterno did hear baffled him.

"I didn't know which way to go," he said. "And rather than get in there and make a mistake ...."

At another point, Paterno said, "I didn't know exactly how to handle it and I was afraid to do something that might jeopardize what the university procedure was. So I backed away and turned it over to some other people, people I thought would have a little more expertise than I did. It didn't work out that way."

A day after he was alerted to what he says was a general accusation against Sandusky, Paterno says, "I called my superiors and I said, 'Hey, we got a problem, I think. Would you guys look into it?' Cause I didn't know, you know."

While I buy some of this, I think it sounds like a guy that was genuinely shocked by the situation, and didn't know how to handle it.

So he followed procedure and took the decision out of his hands.

[LobsterJ]

I can't see how you would have wanted Paterno to out this guy to the press if you truly believed that.

I really don't know what more Paterno could have really done. He reported it to his superiors. He reported it to the cops. I guess he could have pushed for a more thorough investigation, but again, what did he know except what one assistant told him?

Was Schultz part of the actual campus police? What I understand is that he was some sort of Vice President for the university, who had "oversight" regarding campus police, not an actual officer of the law himself.

[Doc Jon]

Was Schultz part of the actual campus police? What I understand is that he was some sort of Vice President for the university, who had "oversight" regarding campus police, not an actual officer of the law himself.

I get ya. I'm sure in-depth analysis would reveal other ways for Paterno to have handled this. Again, by his own admission, he could have done more.

I think it's something a lot of us say in the face of a tragedy we feel could have been prevented, even when it's not true. But I'm sure he could have.

I think his fault lies in that he didn't know how to handle it. There was an old friend, a possibly horrific act, the possibility of other victims, the program, the university, the assistant and so on. So he did what many would do, he followed the protocol on the situation and walked away hoping that they would deal with it.

I respect you opinion, but to me, I see his failing as utterly human. I see it as something that could befall any of us and therefore not something worthy of demonizing the man.