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[LOLtron]

What's with all these shocking images in comics nowadays?  Are they good, bad, or something else?  Has shock comic writing dropped the baby?


Greetings, Skid Fans!  Get ready to wipe! 

Finally saw Kick Ass last night.  My parents asked me how the movie was when I walked in the door.  I said "It was morally reprehensible and I enjoyed every minute of it."  They looked at me a little strangely after that, but still no more than usual.  I explained that it was a movie for comic fans.  The writer of the comic on which the movie was based, I said, is known for writing stories with a certain amount of shock content.  I didn't to into greater detail, of course.  Comics are very different from when my parents were kids.  I'm sure they'd rather read something that doesn't portray a foul-mouthed 10-year-old girl who kills, maims, and dismembers bad guys and then goes with her dad to the soda shoppe for an ice cream.

I've been thinking about the shock value of comics lately.  Especially since the issue has been active on the board over the past couple weeks.  The drama, as it were, started over an issue of Ultimate Avengers wherein the Red Skull forces a whimpering mother to make a choice.  Either kill her husband or Skull will drop her infant child out the window.  Tears streaming down her face, she empties a gun in her hubby's face.  Okay, she says, now give me my baby.  Well, the Red Skull is evil, see.  So he essentially says "I lied" and drops the baby anyway. 

Does the baby survive?  Sorry, that's not the issue here.  You want to find out, read the comic.

The issue here is acceptable levels of imagery in comics.  What's decent and what's not?  Everybody has a different opinion on decency.  If publishers allowed for all of them, they'd never get anything out on the shelves.  So that's where the ratings systems come in.  Marvel has foregone the seal of the Comics Code Authority for their own method of labeling the content of their books.

Now the issue of Ultimate Avengers in question (#5) had such a label.  It said "Parental Advisory".  On the bar code. 

Y'know, that little white box in the corner that your comic shop owner scans as he rings up your comics.  Yeah, the one nobody hardly ever looks at.  That one.

And that brings up another issue.  Some buyers expect the companies to make their labels noticeable.  Like the ones you see on CD's for explicit lyrics.  Should we expect to see such labeling on our comics? 

Personally, I don't see why not, but that's me.  Some may say that such labeling, if too overt, would mar the appearance of the cover.  Perhaps it would even dissuade people from buying it.  And for those quite discerning over the content of their comics, I'm sure that would be a good thing. 

Making the warning labels larger is one possible solution.  What about bagging?  Some companies do that, but not always because of explicit content.  But what if they did?  If, say Marvel, had to bag a comic for every time Mark Millar wrote a villain doing something morally disgusting, how would that affect price?  I'm sure those bags cost money.  Would it be worth the extra quarters just to find out how explicit the comic really is?  I guess it just depends on the buyer.

My comic shop has a progressive solution to this:  They bag the comics themselves.  Comics like Tarot Witch of the Black Rose, Mark Millar's War Heroes #2, and certain Vertigo titles like Greek Street.  Speaking of Millar's War Heroes, you know the scene I'm thinking about.  If you don't, buy the comic......if you dare!!!

I'm sure if my shop was around when stuff like Preacher was coming out, the owner would have bagged nearly every issue of that.  That's just how he is.  He will not take the chance of some little kid picking up a comic about a fallen priest prowling around the country with a sexpot who's into guns and an Irish vampire who's done just about every immoral hedonistic thing there is.  That's why all the all-ages comics are on a wall right next to the door.  That's how he rolls.

But I'm getting away from myself a bit.

The baby dropping scene is certainly not the first shocking thing to happen in comics.  And I'm sure it won't be the last.  The aforementioned Preacher is a good example of that.  So why didn't anybody raise a ruckus about it back then?  Well, I'm sure someone did.  But times were different.  The internet was just starting to explode.  Messageboarding was in its infancy.  Outlets for discussing such things were limited to letterpages and snail mail.

Now the internet has had a chance to evolve.  Comics have evolved.  Comic writers have...what?  I want to say they've evolved, but I'm not so sure.  Maybe I'm splitting a hair, but I think it's a bit more apt to say comic writing has evolved rather than the comic writer.

There are more kinds of stories put out than there were years ago.  Those genres were brought about by such efforts as Marvel's Epic line and DC's Vertigo.  Not to mention the world of underground and black & white books that were bubbling underneath.  They introduced readers to worlds beyond just the hero getting the girl in the end. 

Heh, I made a funny.

But can a writer evolve?  Maybe some can.  But since this column deals with shock value, let's look at a shock writer.  Garth Ennis, for example.  Started on Hellblazer.  Made a huge splash with Preacher.  Went on to small arcs on BLOTDK and books like Demon and Hitman.  Did some really good stuff with Unknown Soldier and War Stories and, lately, Battlefields.  Also did Dicks and does The Boys.

Now that's just a skimming of the work he's done over the past 20 years or so.  Has he evolved?  Preacher was not just a showcase for shocking imagery, it was Ennis' forum for his views on things like organized religion and elements of society.  The Boys reads like a parody on superhero books past (Avengers, JLA) and present (Authority).  Lots of shocking imagery in The Boys.  A blonde beautiful superheroine shamed to the point of dressing scantily around all the other drooling male heroes.  A character named Mother's Milk who gets his powers from....well....read the book.

If you're looking at Ennis in terms of meaningful storytelling, using his books as a format for his own progressive viewpoints, then perhaps you could argue he has devolved. 

But his war comics?  Lots of shocking imagery there, too.  I'm still haunted by a image in War Stories of a mother and baby melted together by an explosive.  The mother is dead, but the baby is still screaming.  Ennis never fails to tell us that war is horrible and there is no end to the kind of suffering it brings.  Hmm....maybe he has evolved there, in a way.

There's lots more to talk about.  A lot of stuff out there.  You could find as many comics with no more lessons on depravity other than that it is in the world, as there are comics that show us that life is a full spectrum and we cannot ignore infrared for the sake of ultraviolet. 

There's the old adage: Don't like it, don't look at it.  I wholly support that. 

BUT.....

Don't ignore it.  Don't tell yourself it doesn't exist.  The tide of knowledge is ever-increasing.  The pressure is incalculable and it will eventually tear down any wall constructed against it.

It's a shocking world, people.  Better get the shock used to it.

[BubbaKanoosh]

well done.

I really liked this.

[Keb]

Nice work D! Although you missed throwing the word "pussy" in there about 29 times

[Black_Orchid]

I think the line for me is when the shock value stuff is in books I wouldn't expect them to be in. There are many lines of books that are givens for going where others fear to tread. But then there are the books you think are safe bets..well the best example I can think of is Teen Titans under Sean McKeever. Wonder Dog, that's all I will say.

A lot of the books everyone is familiar with Supeman, Batman, Spider-Man, etc seem to vary with the writer and editor. One year it's your friendly neighborhood web slinger who is gosh darning his grouchy boss, the next the Lizard is eating his own kid. One year Supes is getting beaten to death, the next he's playing fetch in space with his dog.

Usually you get a feel for where a story is going, you know things are going to get ugly so be prepared. But when it comes out of the blue, it feels cheap and unnecessary.

[Rockman]

I think the line for me is when the shock value stuff is in books I wouldn't expect them to be in. There are many lines of books that are givens for going where others fear to tread. But then there are the books you think are safe bets..well the best example I can think of is Teen Titans under Sean McKeever. Wonder Dog, that's all I will say.

A lot of the books everyone is familiar with Supeman, Batman, Spider-Man, etc seem to vary with the writer and editor. One year it's your friendly neighborhood web slinger who is gosh darning his grouchy boss, the next the Lizard is eating his own kid. One year Supes is getting beaten to death, the next he's playing fetch in space with his dog.

Usually you get a feel for where a story is going, you know things are going to get ugly so be prepared. But when it comes out of the blue, it feels cheap and unnecessary.

What happened under McKeever?

And in general I agree with you. The venue is important, I think certain titles like Spider-man, Avengers, X-men should maintain a certain level of accsessability to a general audience. Does anyone remember the backlash when the Hood beat Tigra? That was nothing compared to some of the stuff now, or even before it. Other books like the Punisher, or Ultimates I will give a little more slack too. Of course I will not try to pretend that a hackish tactless move in any title is good writing.

[Black_Orchid]

What happened under McKeever?

And in general I agree with you. The venue is important, I think certain titles like Spider-man, Avengers, X-men should maintain a certain level of accsessability to a general audience. Does anyone remember the backlash when the Hood beat Tigra? That was nothing compared to some of the stuff now, or even before it. Other books like the Punisher, or Ultimates I will give a little more slack too. Of course I will not try to pretend that a hackish tactless move in any title is good writing.

If you ever watched SuperFriends you may be familiar with Wonder Dog, Wendy and Marvin.

[Rockman]

he turned huge and feral and mutilated one of the wonder twins?

[Punchy]

Just because some people are too lazy to actually look for a 'Parental Advisory' label doesn't mean it should be made bigger.

Any responsible parent would look closer. Media companies shouldn't have to adjust for people's stupidity. The label's there, if you don't see it, it's your own fault.

[Rockman]

Just because some people are too lazy to actually look for a 'Parental Advisory' label doesn't mean it should be made bigger.

Any responsible parent would look closer. Media companies shouldn't have to adjust for people's stupidity. The label's there, if you don't see it, it's your own fault.

Punchy in America we have cigarette cartoons where about 30 percent of the box is made up of a surgeon generals warning. That is what people are used to over here.

[Benderbrau]

Just because some people are too lazy to actually look for a 'Parental Advisory' label doesn't mean it should be made bigger.

Any responsible parent would look closer. Media companies shouldn't have to adjust for people's stupidity. The label's there, if you don't see it, it's your own fault.

I love it when those that aren't parents talk like they are.

Not sayin' you're wrong but still:

[Punchy]

Punchy in America we have cigarette cartoons where about 30 percent of the box is made up of a surgeon generals warning. That is what people are used to over here.

We have that in the UK too. And people ignore them.

[Punchy]

I love it when those that aren't parents talk like they are.

Not sayin' you're wrong but still:

Hey, I love it when older people say what young people like.

Any responsible person, parent or not, should have more than a cursory glance at it. Don't blame Mark Millar for your laziness is what I'm saying.

[Black_Orchid]

he turned huge and feral and mutilated one of the wonder twins?

He started off nice and sweet but turns out he was some hellhound that belonged to Ares kid or something. Some plot to get Cassie. Killed Marvin, put Wendy in a coma. She is in a wheelchair now. Anyway this all happened while the Titans are merrily training away in the tower basement.

[Rockman]

Hey, I love it when older people say what young people like.

Any responsible person, parent or not, should have more than a cursory glance at it. Don't blame Mark Millar for your laziness is what I'm saying.

I blame Millar for being a lazy writer who peaked with Ultimates 1.

[Rockman]

He started off nice and sweet but turns out he was some hellhound that belonged to Ares kid or something. Some plot to get Cassie. Killed Marvin, put Wendy in a coma. She is in a wheelchair now. Anyway this all happened while the Titans are merrily training away in the tower basement.

lame