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Swedish Wiretapping law - Backlash

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jza1218
 
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Postby jza1218 » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:14 am

MoneyMelon wrote:Science.........bah!

One day you'll learn to fear the sun like the rest of us


I do. Melanoma

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Postby GOSD » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:14 am

nietoperz wrote:Well, while this has to do with phone conversations as well, a huge percentage of spam email, phishing and (above all) illegal torrents and p2p stuff comes from Russian IP addresses. The reason The Outhouse doesn't get the spam that most sites like this get is that Brad blocked a huge number of Russian domains from being able to join up: hence no bots.

Sweden also has a HUGE Russian immigrant population, which may have something to do with it.

Plus: the World's biggest torrent site (The Pirate Bay) is Swedish, and the authorities have tried and failed to shut it down several times now.

All said, it seems the Government would like incriminating information on someone...
The Pirate Bay kicks ass!

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Postby nietoperz » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:15 am

GOSD wrote:The Pirate Bay kicks ass!


Yup. And it's still there despite the efforts of the Governments of several different countries! Those guys have made some powerful enemies...
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Postby MoneyMelon » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:15 am

jza1218 wrote:I do. Melanoma

Sounds delicious!
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Man of Steel wrote:get over myself? You're the one who fancies himself some sort of internet celebrity.

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Postby GOSD » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:53 am

nietoperz wrote:Yup. And it's still there despite the efforts of the Governments of several different countries! Those guys have made some powerful enemies...
I applaud them then.

I get decent torrents from there of shows that are not available on DVD or TV.

Fight the power!

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Postby nietoperz » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:56 am

GOSD wrote:I applaud them then.

I get decent torrents from there of shows that are not available on DVD or TV.

Fight the power!


Have you tried IsoHunt? I like that even better...
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Postby DeadFett » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:27 pm

Thunderstorm wrote:As long as people continue to see these people as 'Democrats' and 'Republicans' and believe there's a difference, and trust their TV to tell them the truth, we'll continue to be screwed. Period.

I said way back those Democrats wouldn't change a damn thing, and they haven't. People are being played, seriously. It's their own fault for not looking closer at these people beyond what O'Reilly and Olberman tell them to think.


I couldn't agree more. We need at least 5 candidates to choose from.
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Postby DeadFett » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:31 pm

Spiderrob wrote:He didn't actually say it.

But you note "essential:

and "little temporary"

which are debatable terms.


"Essential" may be a debatable term to you when it comes to civil liberties, but, to me it isn't.
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Postby Spidey-Man » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:45 pm

DeadFett wrote:"Essential" may be a debatable term to you when it comes to civil liberties, but, to me it isn't.


He said essential liberty. Meaning, there is unessential as well.

For example, you don't have the freedom to murder someone.

You don't have the freedom to drive a car without a license.

You don't have the freedom to walk on an airplane w/o going through a metal detector.

His point was you can't give up something essential, to get something temporary.

What is essential was left undefined.

and he didn't speak to whether you can give it up for something permanent.

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Postby Spidey-Man » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:47 pm

DeadFett wrote:I couldn't agree more. We need at least 5 candidates to choose from.


Well you'd have to do away with the electoral college.

But say its popular vote.

Would you be comfortable with someone being elected with 21% of the vote-meaning 79% didnt want them to be president?

and do you think its easier for a terrible extremist with fanatical followers to win 21%?

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Postby MoneyMelon » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:53 pm

Spiderrob wrote:Well you'd have to do away with the electoral college.

But say its popular vote.

Would you be comfortable with someone being elected with 21% of the vote-meaning 79% didnt want them to be president?

and do you think its easier for a terrible extremist with fanatical followers to win 21%?

We have a terrible extremist right now! :lol:
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Postby Thunderstorm » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:55 pm

DeadFett wrote:I couldn't agree more. We need at least 5 candidates to choose from.


Well technically, we do, and we had more before the big two settled on Obama and Mccain.

There's the Constitution Party, and the Green Party, and the Libertarian Party off the top of my head, there may be more. They aren't taken seriously by the general public, and the media mostly ignores them. And you have people like Ron Paul who's only a Republican because he knows that's the only way he can get noticed at all.

And look at the Republicans... the vast majority of them didn't seem to like McCain at all, yet he's the one who gets the nomination. As for Obama, the media hasn't taken him to task on anything substantial at all.

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Postby Spidey-Man » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:55 pm

MoneyMelon wrote:We have a terrible extremist right now! :lol:


Not really actually.

But it wouldn't be hard for someone truly evil to get 21% of the vote.

and again, almost 80% might not like them and they could still win. They could be 1st choice for 21 % and last choice for 79% and they are president.

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Postby DeadFett » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:58 pm

Spiderrob wrote:He said essential liberty. Meaning, there is unessential as well.

For example, you don't have the freedom to murder someone.

You don't have the freedom to drive a car without a license.

You don't have the freedom to walk on an airplane w/o going through a metal detector.

His point was you can't give up something essential, to get something temporary.

What is essential was left undefined.

and he didn't speak to whether you can give it up for something permanent.


Nothing you listed above is an essential freedom, especially murder. And yes, he left essential undefined. And whether it's temporary or permanent, I will never approve of a government spying on its citizens for any reason. Invasion of privacy, wiretapping, reading my e-mails, etc. are essential freedoms to me. And although I don't know for sure, I doubt Ben Franklin would approve of our government spying on us.
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Postby Spidey-Man » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:01 pm

DeadFett wrote:Nothing you listed above is an essential freedom, especially murder. And yes, he left essential undefined. And whether it's temporary or permanent, I will never approve of a government spying on its citizens for any reason. Invasion of privacy, wiretapping, reading my e-mails, etc. are essential freedoms to me. And although I don't know for sure, I doubt Ben Franklin would approve of our government spying on us.


It's all opinion on what is essential, though, isn't it?

The new law requires a warrant, so Ben would probably be ok. Plus Ben committed treason, I tghink he understands things can be different in war time :lol:

Would he consider a phone call to foreign country an essential freedom? I don't know.

Ben wouldn;t like a lot of things, of course, including things we consider quite necessary today.

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