The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

[Rockman]

No man is an island.

And providing support does not eliminate a person's need to help himself. All I know is that I couldn't have gone from country trash to advanced-degree holder without various breaks afforded to me by government. I still had to do the work, but I wouldn't have had access to the institutions if not for public help.

That's fine Eli, but they need to do a better job of weeding out the countless people who completely abuse the programs that helped you.

It pisses me off that these programs are endangered for people who they actually benefit, because of derelects who abuse it outside of its intended purpose.

[Eli Katz]

That's fine Eli, but they need to do a better job of weeding out the countless people who completely abuse the programs that helped you.

It pisses me off that these programs are endangered for people who they actually benefit, because of derelects who abuse it outside of its intended purpose.

It's complicated. There are certainly big issues of over-dependency and abuse of public programs.

There is a huge underclass that often appears to be hopelessly trapped in poverty, under-employment and, in too many cases, criminality.

Some of these problems, it seems, will likely take generations to ameliorate.

[Rockman]

Some seem to have simple solutions.

You collect government money for college, then you must provide a passing grade for that semester for each course, or be cut off. Too many people get the money and just drop the courses.

[Timbales]

I think student loans should be more like other types of loans:

- Do you have good grades going into college? Grades suck, no loan for you

- What is your major/career intention? Medieval French Literature?, no loan for you. Computer programming? alrighty then

I agree with a semester by semester check-in. Shitty grades? Loan suspended.

[ReturnoftheMack]

You guys are really harsh.

And I always hear about people abusing the system, but never any facts about it. Obviously people do it, but what is the percentage? What is an actual number?

All I hear are talking points about these people without any actual facts.

[Rockman]

You guys are really harsh.

And I always hear about people abusing the system, but never any facts about it. Obviously people do it, but what is the percentage? What is an actual number?

All I hear are talking points about these people without any actual facts.

It'd be very difficult to get hard percentages for something like that. It does in fact exist, and it isn't reasonable to ask people for proof of performance for college, and it is even more reasonable to assume that the government would send people to college for careers, not some useless degree.

[Dragavon]

Evangelical Scientists Refute Gravity With New 'Intelligent Falling' Theory

The Onion is not a reliable news source!

[habitual]

I don't see the logic in saying government can't/won't improve education.

The GI bill did more for education in this country than any program that ever existed, it's definitive proof that the government can positively contribute to education.

Hab

[ReturnoftheMack]

It'd be very difficult to get hard percentages for something like that. It does in fact exist, and it isn't reasonable to ask people for proof of performance for college, and it is even more reasonable to assume that the government would send people to college for careers, not some useless degree.

But that's the problem. Without facts, we don't know if the problem is 50% or 1%.

[Rockman]

But that's the problem. Without facts, we don't know if the problem is 50% or 1%.

The solution is easy though, does it really matter.

I'm not advocating cutting off the program, but you'd never get accurate numbers for this. The government isn't tracking it, so it would have to come from the colleges. They have a good reason not to want this type of thing to change. They make 50 grand selling people a worthless degree, of course they are inclined to be a little less open about it. But students can print off their grades for free at the local library, or they could just e-mail it to whomever. It's a very easy fix to this problem.

Now if I had to guess I'd say it was a pretty good number of people. Just anectdotally I know people who have seen classes shrink by 50% after the students got their checks from the government. This is at three different institutions. That doesn't represent hard evidence, but I think it is easy to see why I would ask the government to make sure the money they spend is actually being used for the its intended purpose.

[Rockman]

I don't see the logic in saying government can't/won't improve education.

The GI bill did more for education in this country than any program that ever existed, it's definitive proof that the government can positively contribute to education.

Hab

How so?

Vets can now go to college off the government dime? I don't see how that improved the quality of education at all.

[Timbales]

No one should be allowed to have children before they are 25, unless they are married and can financially support themselves. There isn't a Constitutional right to have kids.

[Rockman]

No one should be allowed to have children before they are 25, unless they are married and can financially support themselves. There isn't a Constitutional right to have kids.

I can see this sort of thing happening in other countries before the U.S.

[Rockman]

and I assume it was a joke.

[Timbales]

I'm in a pissy mood because of Obama and North Carolina.