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The Official Outhouse All Wrestling Thread!

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fieldy snuts

Rain Partier

Postby fieldy snuts » Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:32 pm

Remember Joey Ryan? He unloaded on twitter about WWE :lol:

- “At WWE camp, Bill DeMott said nobody on indies is as good as NXT guys. I’d LOVE to debate Bill DeMott on what he thinks ‘good wrestling’ is.”

- “Another thing Bill DeMott said at the WWE camp is that ‘WWE retrained Daniel Bryan or he wouldn’t be as good as he is today.’”

- “Trying to get WWE job in 2010, John Laurinaitis told me ‘I have enough 5’9″ guys. I can’t make money with Daniel Bryan, how can I with you?’”

- “Candice Michelle went to PWG in 2008 & raved about me to John Laurinaitis. When I saw him, he said ‘What does a Diva know about wrestling?’”

- “‘Don’t wrestle the way John Cena does. Wrestle the way that I teach you.’ – Bill DeMott at WWE camp.”

He also posted a screenshot of his email reply to WWE’s Senior Director of Talent Development (likely former beach volleyball player Canyon Ceman), who said he was too experienced.

Ryan wrote: “I respect your opinion but I could not disagree more with it. My talents and abilities allow me to travel the world and make a full-time living in professional wrestling, which is not something that most WWE Superstars could do on their own. You have coaches in place that have never drawn a dime in their careers trying to determine who and who cannot draw money which is the true flaw in your system. I have had far more successful names in wrestling, some within WWE itself, rave about my creativeness, character acting and ability to engage an audience and your evaluators missed it. Perhaps it’s time for you to reevaluate your evaluators. Good luck in finding your next big superstar.”
User avatar

Lord Simian

The Lord of the Monkeys

Postby Lord Simian » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:14 am

Well, maybe if it was anyone else, but since it's not... fuck Joey Ryan! :twisted:
User avatar

LoganRSA

FROGMAN

Postby LoganRSA » Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:19 am

Who?
User avatar

Punchy

Staff Writer

Postby Punchy » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:09 pm

http://niamsuggitt.tumblr.com/post/77306449629/my-wwe-elimination-chamber-2014-predictions

My Elimination Chamber predictions.
User avatar

Stephen Day

Wrasslin' Fan

Postby Stephen Day » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:55 pm

misac wrote:
So New Japan is no different than WWE in that aspect. :D


Somewhat, it would be my opinion though that New Japan has more of a track record in overlooking this bias if someone has enough of a talent level. It's still not an uncommon event for somebody to come into New Japan from another company and do well without being expected to train at New Japan's dojo. The Fed will do that as well but they don't do it nearly as often.
User avatar

Stephen Day

Wrasslin' Fan

Postby Stephen Day » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:56 pm

RIP Viscera/Mabel

:(
User avatar

T.S.S.-72

Rain Partier

Postby T.S.S.-72 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:30 am

I watched a new Jeff Hardy Willow promo and I have to say he's really not that bad in this persona of his. He seems to really get into the character and the laugh he does is really cool and creepy. I know since it's in TNA it won't amount to a hill of beans because nothing there ever does but this might get me to at least tune in a couple times to see what it's all about. I've always enjoyed characters in wrestling, like Undertaker, Kane, and more recently the Wyatts. I think that is a big thing that is missing from todays wrestling is lack of characters and I guess thats why I find The Willow character somewhat interesting.
User avatar

Lord Simian

The Lord of the Monkeys

Postby Lord Simian » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:41 am

Agent of the Bat wrote:I watched a new Jeff Hardy Willow promo and I have to say he's really not that bad in this persona of his. He seems to really get into the character and the laugh he does is really cool and creepy. I know since it's in TNA it won't amount to a hill of beans because nothing there ever does but this might get me to at least tune in a couple times to see what it's all about. I've always enjoyed characters in wrestling, like Undertaker, Kane, and more recently the Wyatts. I think that is a big thing that is missing from todays wrestling is lack of characters and I guess thats why I find The Willow character somewhat interesting.


The trick isn't characters, though. Kane is a character, yes. But so were Isaac Yankem, DDS... and the Christmas Creature!

The trick is to be a GOOD character. :P
User avatar

Punchy

Staff Writer

Postby Punchy » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:04 pm

Stephen Day wrote:
Somewhat, it would be my opinion though that New Japan has more of a track record in overlooking this bias if someone has enough of a talent level. It's still not an uncommon event for somebody to come into New Japan from another company and do well without being expected to train at New Japan's dojo. The Fed will do that as well but they don't do it nearly as often.


There's loads of people in the WWE right now who made their name elsewhere first though.

Cesaro, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Evan Bourne, Seth Rollins came from ROH.

Dean Ambrose and Luke Harper were also popular on the Indies.

Internationally, Alberto Del Rio, El Torito and Sin Cara (both of them) were popular in Mexico, Yoshi Tatsu was somewhat known in Japan, and the likes of Sheamus, Wade Barrett and Drew McIntyre were on the British Indies.

Big Show, Booker T, Rey Mysterio and William Regal were all in WCW before WWE if you want to go back that far.

Hell, Xavier Woods was in TNA.

I think the good thing about NXT now is that WWE can have the best of both worlds by giving people from other companies time to get used to their style alongside people WWE bring up themselves.

Because of the lack of any real competition, it's a very rare talent that can go straight from somewhere else right into WWE without going through development. Some of the very biggest TNA people probably qualify, like say Jeff Hardy or Sting, but other than that? Prince Devitt is rumoured to have been offered a contract with little to no NXT development.
User avatar

Stephen Day

Wrasslin' Fan

Postby Stephen Day » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:21 pm

Punchy wrote:
There's loads of people in the WWE right now who made their name elsewhere first though.

Cesaro, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Evan Bourne, Seth Rollins came from ROH.

Dean Ambrose and Luke Harper were also popular on the Indies.

Internationally, Alberto Del Rio, El Torito and Sin Cara (both of them) were popular in Mexico, Yoshi Tatsu was somewhat known in Japan, and the likes of Sheamus, Wade Barrett and Drew McIntyre were on the British Indies.

Big Show, Booker T, Rey Mysterio and William Regal were all in WCW before WWE if you want to go back that far.

Hell, Xavier Woods was in TNA.

I think the good thing about NXT now is that WWE can have the best of both worlds by giving people from other companies time to get used to their style alongside people WWE bring up themselves.

Because of the lack of any real competition, it's a very rare talent that can go straight from somewhere else right into WWE without going through development. Some of the very biggest TNA people probably qualify, like say Jeff Hardy or Sting, but other than that? Prince Devitt is rumoured to have been offered a contract with little to no NXT development.


Like you said, most of those names were sent to WWE Developmental first though. That's what I mean, the last guy that the fed brought in that came right to the Fed without the thought the he had to be re-taught to wrestle the "WWE way" was Mistico (or Sin Cara as the Fed renamed him :smt011 ).

Over in New Japan, they'll bring in wrestlers from other companies without thinking they have to be re-taught anything. I mentioned Kota Ibushi, before New Japan recently signed him, he was a guy who wrestled for, and was trained by a company called DDT. DDT is company basically on the same level in Japan that ROH is over here. He's really good though and New Japan thought nothing of just bringing him in and putting him on their shows. On the big New Japan cards, there are usually one or two wrestlers who aren't New Japan regulars who are there representing other companies and there's no thought from New Japan that they have to be re-taught to wrestle New Japan's strong style.
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Punchy

Staff Writer

Postby Punchy » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:25 pm

Stephen Day wrote:
Like you said, most of those names were sent to WWE Developmental first though. That's what I mean, the last guy that the fed brought in that came right to the Fed without the thought the he had to be re-taught to wrestle the "WWE way" was Mistico (or Sin Cara as the Fed renamed him :smt011 ).

Over in New Japan, they'll bring in wrestlers from other companies without thinking they have to be re-taught anything. I mentioned Kota Ibushi, before New Japan recently signed him, he was a guy who wrestled for, and was trained by a company called DDT. DDT is company basically on the same level in Japan that ROH is over here. He's really good though and New Japan thought nothing of just bringing him in and putting him on their shows. On the big New Japan cards, there are usually one or two wrestlers who aren't New Japan regulars who are there representing other companies and there's no thought from New Japan that they have to be re-taught to wrestle New Japan's strong style.


But isn't a good thing that they go through developmental? It didn't really work out for the original Sin Cara going straight in.

I don't mind them going through NXT first because NXT is on TV (or online) and is a good show.
User avatar

Stephen Day

Wrasslin' Fan

Postby Stephen Day » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:36 pm

Punchy wrote:
But isn't a good thing that they go through developmental? It didn't really work out for the original Sin Cara going straight in.

I don't mind them going through NXT first because NXT is on TV (or online) and is a good show.


I don't think it's a good thing in the end to tell the truth. New Japan has no problem finding wrestlers who can just step in. I think a lot of guys in ROH, or other places are a lot more ready than you might think. If somebody can step right out of DDT and wrestle in New Japan, then there isn't any doubt in my mind that there are people who could step right out of ROH into WWE. WWE developmental sounds good on the surface, but the problem is that all of their wrestlers are taught, or re-taught, to wrestler in the same style. It tends to make a lot of the WWE's in ring talent, particularly in their mid-card, seem very generic -- at least to me. It's one of the big reasons why I've stopped watching the Fed.
User avatar

syxxpakk

Wrasslin' Fan

Postby syxxpakk » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:37 pm

It depends. WWE has a distinct frame of match. Within the context of that frame, you can fit a variety of different approaches (i.e. Daniel Bryan is a different worker than Evan Bourne). But overall, the frame reminds the same match-to-match. You very rarely see a match that operates outside the framework, and when you do - the general reaction is "MOTYC" regardless of true quality It happened on Monday, for example. Cesaro vs Cena was a great match, but what really sets it a part is that it was different from the usual framework WWE matches followed.

That's basically what developmental is about. Teaching that framework. We can talk all day about how Sin Cara didn't work in WWE. But how come he was blowing minds weekly and being one of the top draws WORLDWIDE before he got to WWE? It's because he was allowed to do his thing, his way.

There's something to be said about homogenization, but there's also something to be said about learning how to work within the confines of structure. You can make valid arguments either way. To me, Sin Cara is the greatest example of the system failing. But then you also have Bryan Danielson, who might be the greatest example of the system working.
User avatar

Stephen Day

Wrasslin' Fan

Postby Stephen Day » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:40 pm

syxxpakk wrote:It depends. WWE has a distinct frame of match. Within the context of that frame, you can fit a variety of different approaches (i.e. Daniel Bryan is a different worker than Evan Bourne). But overall, the frame reminds the same match-to-match. You very rarely see a match that operates outside the framework, and when you do - the general reaction is "MOTYC" regardless of true quality It happened on Monday, for example. Cesaro vs Cena was a great match, but what really sets it a part is that it was different from the usual framework WWE matches followed.

That's basically what developmental is about. Teaching that framework. We can talk all day about how Sin Cara didn't work in WWE. But how come he was blowing minds weekly and being one of the top draws WORLDWIDE before he got to WWE? It's because he was allowed to do his thing, his way.

There's something to be said about homogenization, but there's also something to be said about learning how to work within the confines of structure. You can make valid arguments either way. To me, Sin Cara is the greatest example of the system failing. But then you also have Bryan Danielson, who might be the greatest example of the system working.


I completely agree with you about Mistico.
User avatar

Punchy

Staff Writer

Postby Punchy » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:42 pm

Stephen Day wrote:
I don't think it's a good thing in the end to tell the truth. New Japan has no problem finding wrestlers who can just step in. I think a lot of guys in ROH, or other places are a lot more ready than you might think. If somebody can step right out of DDT and wrestle in New Japan, then there isn't any doubt in my mind that there are people who could step right out of ROH into WWE. WWE developmental sounds good on the surface, but the problem is that all of their wrestlers are taught, or re-taught, to wrestler in the same style. It tends to make a lot of the WWE's in ring talent, particularly in their mid-card, seem very generic -- at least to me. It's one of the big reasons why I've stopped watching the Fed.


I dunno, I think there's plenty of variety when it comes to in-ring styles in WWE.

What NXT does best is allow people time to develop characters and gimmicks. Bray Wyatt initially debuted as the boring 'Husky Harris' in the WWE, but he went back down to NXT and was allowed to create a character that has become hugely popular.

I have no doubt that El Generico could have been dropped straight into Raw and do well in the ring, but being in NXT let him take his mask off and learn how to do promos properly rather than speak pidgin spanish in an environment that's less pressured than 15,000 baying fans.

WWE is about more than just in-ring style, it's about character, and that's what NXT is for.

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